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post #46 of 69 Old 12-12-2017, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
So thought a lot of British Columbians. This February apparently caused a lot of chaos due to people's lack of preparation.

Like someone mentioned here, it's not really about snow. It's about the temperature. If the tires get too hard, your car simply won't get as good of a grip, even on dry ground.

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\I have been driving for 61 years, 34 years in Toronto Area, 27 years in BC (Comox) In all of those years I have NEVER had snow or M/S tires.
Given the years you will realize that a whole lot was on rear wheel drive cars, Did I have problems sometimes?
Sure, but I also saw 4x4 trucks and SUVs in the ditches as I drove by.
I am not trying to say that snow tires are not better under some conditions, but knowing your vehicles/your limits
will enable you to get through a lot of times, especially with our front wheel drives.
Most winters at the first snowfall I would go to a local parking lot and stop/turn to get the memory back of driving on snow/ice. Just do it away from light standards.
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post #47 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 04:53 AM
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I bought my car in early March, came with Goodyear Eagle RS-A’s (new) I backed it out of the garage and it slid down the driveway in light snow the first night I drove it.

Some all seasons may be better than others but my safety, my families safety and the safety of others is worth the $1000 spent every couple of years on a good set of winter tires.

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post #48 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flydon View Post
\I have been driving for 61 years, 34 years in Toronto Area, 27 years in BC (Comox) In all of those years I have NEVER had snow or M/S tires.
Given the years you will realize that a whole lot was on rear wheel drive cars, Did I have problems sometimes?
Sure, but I also saw 4x4 trucks and SUVs in the ditches as I drove by.
I am not trying to say that snow tires are not better under some conditions, but knowing your vehicles/your limits
will enable you to get through a lot of times, especially with our front wheel drives.
Most winters at the first snowfall I would go to a local parking lot and stop/turn to get the memory back of driving on snow/ice. Just do it away from light standards.
Don
You DON'T NEED snow tires, but once you've driven with them on, you'll see the HUGE difference in safety they provide. The most important thing being the stopping distance of snow tires while in mid to heavy snow or ice, stopping distance is GREATLY REDUCED. Prior to getting the Blizzaks, I drove for 20 years without snow tires. When you can tank through heavy snow with a family front wheel drive car, side by side next to a 4x4 truck with offroad tires, then you know you are safe. Your choice.

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post #49 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flydon View Post
\I have been driving for 61 years, 34 years in Toronto Area, 27 years in BC (Comox) In all of those years I have NEVER had snow or M/S tires.
Given the years you will realize that a whole lot was on rear wheel drive cars, Did I have problems sometimes?
Sure, but I also saw 4x4 trucks and SUVs in the ditches as I drove by.
I am not trying to say that snow tires are not better under some conditions, but knowing your vehicles/your limits
will enable you to get through a lot of times, especially with our front wheel drives.
Most winters at the first snowfall I would go to a local parking lot and stop/turn to get the memory back of driving on snow/ice. Just do it away from light standards.
Don
IMO it's a combination of the two, knowing how your car handles and having the proper equipment. The former is actually more of a last resort kinda thing, as in "just in case my car spins out of control." Having the proper tires and just a bit of common sense help you avoid that trouble in the first place. Besides, when you can't climb up a snowy hill in a car with all-season tires, that has very little to do with skills, unless car pushing counts as a skill.

A thing to note is that most British Columbians lack the proper equipment and the skills, since we rarely ever see snow, so unless you are from a different province, it can easily catch people off guard.

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post #50 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 11:17 AM
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snow tires. There's been tests with AWD vehicles with summer and all season tires perform way worse than a FWD/RWD vehicle with winter tires.

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post #51 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 15BlkSport View Post
all season tires perform way worse than a FWD/RWD vehicle with winter tires.
So what you're saying is, I can slap winter tires on my Camaro and be on my merry way!


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post #52 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 12:12 PM
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So what you're saying is, I can slap winter tires on my Camaro and be on my merry way!
LOL, maybe it was just for FWD cars. IIRC, there are few videos out there showing their review and real life performances. I just know that with winter tires they have a higher tolerance to colder weather and do not loose grip because of it.
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post #53 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 12:13 PM
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Driving in the snow isn't *that* hard. I grew up in Ohio, and learned that slow and steady wins in inclement weather, every time. No panicked over corrections, no slamming on the brakes...

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post #54 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 12:16 PM
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So what you're saying is, I can slap winter tires on my Camaro and be on my merry way!
Been there, done that. Yes, the car was very driveable in the snow. Limiting factor was ground clearance.

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post #55 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 12:28 PM
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So what you're saying is, I can slap winter tires on my Camaro and be on my merry way!
Yes. Be light on the gas and you will be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfwxjer View Post
Driving in the snow isn't *that* hard. I grew up in Ohio, and learned that slow and steady wins in inclement weather, every time. No panicked over corrections, no slamming on the brakes...
Easier said than done.

BTW, nice signature. I really hate you now.

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post #56 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 01:14 PM
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Yes. Be light on the gas and you will be fine.



Easier said than done.

BTW, nice signature. I really hate you now.
One must have patience and experience driving in inclement weather before it's second nature. Practice in parking lots during snow storms helped a lot.

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post #57 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GPz1100 View Post
Blizzaks are probably the best for actual snow driving. They are a softer tire and may wear faster during dry conditions. That said, I'm running xice2 on the g now. They're ok in the snow but not excellent. Stopping/starting is fine, but turning has to be done with care.

Also, unless things have changed, only the first 50% of the tire is winter compound, 2nd half is all season.
Most comments are general, direct replies in Bold

True in '92 when I got my first and only Blizzaks gen 1, I don't know about current gen. I used them on a RWD 300E with incredible show/ice performance.

I didn't like the all season component of the Blizzak at all. It was a great snow tire and a poor all season tire. Very spooky hydroplaning on wet spring time roads, no ice or snow at which point I dumped them and subsequent snow tires are 100% snow tires, none of this 50/50 yang.
I got rid of Altimax Arctics last year not because of tread but because they hit 8 years old (should change at 5-6 years).

Quote:
Originally Posted by flydon View Post
\I have been driving for 61 years, 34 years in Toronto Area, 27 years in BC (Comox) In all of those years I have NEVER had snow or M/S tires.
Given the years you will realize that a whole lot was on rear wheel drive cars, Did I have problems sometimes?
Sure, but I also saw 4x4 trucks and SUVs in the ditches as I drove by.
I am not trying to say that snow tires are not better under some conditions, but knowing your vehicles/your limits
will enable you to get through a lot of times, especially with our front wheel drives.
Most winters at the first snowfall I would go to a local parking lot and stop/turn to get the memory back of driving on snow/ice. Just do it away from light standards.
Don
You sound like my dad (a compliment). I'm in my 26th Ohio winter and would have agreed with you 15 years ago.

I now live up a 10% grade 1 mile long. Regardless of skill and experience, one does not simply go up on all seasons and FWD or RWD. I can't count the number of cars I have driven around sitting and spinning wheels (usually FWD. People with RWD have brains enough to not try). These have occurred before the police set up the usual road block until the sand/salt plows come out. Once the trucks come out, I can go up in my RWD '05 300C with crappy Continental tires and not miss a beat.

My situation is unique. We had our first half inch 4 days ago and ironically, I was coming from Discount Tire with my Nokian Nordmans mounted up on the Tire Rack steelies and Mopar TPMS in the back of the van. I struggled mightily to make it up the hill and barely made it just like my '05 Ody which was my first FWD ever with snow tires (thanks hill). For many years, I told people "I live in Ohio and FWD and all season tires are fine, you don't need snow tires" I have not made that statement in nearly 15 years.

Did I "need" snow tires to make it up my hill 4 days ago? No, I made it because of my expert skill and experience but with a bit more snow (ahead of the plows and salt), I would not have made it just like all those other cars I've driven by over the years. I had to back down a different hill in the Ody many years ago which prompted my purchase of snow tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
IMO it's a combination of the two, knowing how your car handles and having the proper equipment. The former is actually more of a last resort kinda thing, as in "just in case my car spins out of control." Having the proper tires and just a bit of common sense help you avoid that trouble in the first place. Besides, when you can't climb up a snowy hill in a car with all-season tires, that has very little to do with skills, unless car pushing counts as a skill.

A thing to note is that most British Columbians lack the proper equipment and the skills, since we rarely ever see snow, so unless you are from a different province, it can easily catch people off guard.
Once the contact patch is lost, they all handle the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enne View Post
So what you're saying is, I can slap winter tires on my Camaro and be on my merry way!
Yes. I did it in my '87 300E without TCS, ESP, or limited slip. I drove in blizzard conditions on Blizzaks from Columbus to Cleveland and on to Richmond with snow packed on the highway. I finally drove out of the snow when I hit Fredericksburg (50 miles north of Richmond). It drove like an AWD. In Richmond where it had snowed, I pulled out of a Blockbuster parking lot which had a steep incline and packed snow. I was blown away with the ability of this "awful car in the snow" to churn up and out of that parking lot but considering its performance over nearly 600 miles in the snow on the freeway, I was not really surprised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
Yes. Be light on the gas and you will be fine.



Easier said than done.

BTW, nice signature. I really hate you now.
Easy with snow tires and still be light on the gas. Just don't be over confident like the AWD idiots that wind up on their roofs.

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Originally Posted by dfwxjer View Post
One must have patience and experience driving in inclement weather before it's second nature. Practice in parking lots during snow storms helped a lot.
Ice is no respector of patience, experience, or skill. Having driven a couple times at Mid Ohio in the skid car, if you lose the contact patch, you're gone, even with skills. The only things that bite into the ice are chains, studs, and snow tires.

If one is not a jerk, one can do pretty well with all seasons (I have) but ice is the great equalizer of the skilled and unskilled.

There is a reason certain areas of CO, CA, etc. require chains before entering the pass. Even "snow" tires aren't allowed without chains. So much for all that patience and skill. Of course, that is in jest and these are the extremes as is my 10% hill.

While most don't drive at the extremes, it's the extremes that send you across the double yellow, into a fence, or make you sit still on a hill. Snow tires are superior to any all seasons tire in the extremes. If the conditions are mild with light flurries, it matters not about the tires much like my hill after the salt, sand, and plow.

Being patient and using your head is extremely important but they can't defy the laws of physics. Snow tires can't either but they offer a tremendous increase in traction, grip, cornering, and braking. One still has to be patient even with snow tires (and AWD) or you'll wind up bouncing off the Armco wondering why your snow tires failed.

I'd like to invite all of you to my hill for the next snow and test your skills with your FWD and all seasons tires (you have to get here before the police block the road and before the plows hit the area).
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post #58 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 04:37 PM
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Driving in the snow isn't *that* hard. I grew up in Ohio, and learned that slow and steady wins in inclement weather, every time. No panicked over corrections, no slamming on the brakes...
{bolded}

100% agree.

But when Jack Hoff pirouettes across four lanes in that lifted F250 he is now in control of what you do next. You can go slow and steady but you may need to make a severe move whether you like it or not.

I still make sure the driving I do is slow and steady in the snow, but those snows have paid for themselves at least twice in avoiding minor fender/benders of which I was in full control, my fellow road warriors weren't.

As II Kings stated "Once the contact patch is lost, they all handle the same." Snows let me hold that patch longer in more adverse conditions.
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post #59 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 04:44 PM
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No doubt I don't mean to downplay proper winter tires. They are a huge difference.

I was just too cheap.


Ice is certainly its own beast. These days I just work from home and leave the car in the garage.

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post #60 of 69 Old 12-13-2017, 05:06 PM
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So what you're saying is, I can slap winter tires on my Camaro and be on my merry way!
Absolutely!

The last set of dedicated snow tires I've had was on my first car...a '52 Chevy. That would have been winter 1960.

I have used chains since, early on, but most all of haven't bothered with since then has been due to climates I've lived in and, since '75, access to 4x4's with A/T's.


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