Why the 6-6 Coupe SHOULD be considered a modern day "Sports" Car Despite Journalists - Page 8 - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #106 of 137 Old 08-30-2016, 01:00 PM
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They lost me about here:
Agreed - but that's a lot of motor in that little car.


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post #107 of 137 Old 08-30-2016, 01:37 PM
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It’s not the first time Ford did the turbo-V6 thing in an AWD sedan…



I understand that 365hp SHO was a fun sedan. But despite all that power, it went through the traps at essentially the same speed as a V6 Accord.


And just because this discussion recently drifted toward the 2.7T Fusion, I noticed this Lincoln MKX 2.7T article.



As I read the following passage it SCREAMED Accord to me.

What gives? Low-speed traction. At anything beyond half throttle, the MKX just can’t get a grip. The comfort-oriented suspension allows serious rear-axle squat under acceleration, pitching the nose up and unloading the front wheels, resulting in fruitless wheelspin.”

Does that a sound familiar to anyone with a V6? This is exactly what I battle each day in my car. Wobbly suspension, bad axle squat under acceleration, front-end lift, horrible wheel spin. Not exactly the traits of a sports car!

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post #108 of 137 Old 08-31-2016, 09:05 AM
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I wonder how many of you actually own the Accord V6 9th generation? All the comments about it not being this or that. No it's not designated as a sports car and Honda never made it advertised as one. It's a great daily drive with sporty characteristics. It has more than enough power for the daily driver and it has precise steering for the regular streets. It can keep up with the V6 Mustangs, Challengers, and Camaros and in fact could be faster in some cases. What's a sports car? It is whatever you want it to be in your mind. I see people in Corollas thinking it's a sports car and that is yes a bit much.

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16 Accord Coupe V6 Orchid White Pearl. The difference is night and day. Well, the colors are.
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post #109 of 137 Old 08-31-2016, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldeagle View Post
It’s not the first time Ford did the turbo-V6 thing in an AWD sedan…



I understand that 365hp SHO was a fun sedan. But despite all that power, it went through the traps at essentially the same speed as a V6 Accord.


And just because this discussion recently drifted toward the 2.7T Fusion, I noticed this Lincoln MKX 2.7T article.



As I read the following passage it SCREAMED Accord to me.



What gives? Low-speed traction. At anything beyond half throttle, the MKX just can’t get a grip. The comfort-oriented suspension allows serious rear-axle squat under acceleration, pitching the nose up and unloading the front wheels, resulting in fruitless wheelspin.”

Does that a sound familiar to anyone with a V6? This is exactly what I battle each day in my car. Wobbly suspension, bad axle squat under acceleration, front-end lift, horrible wheel spin. Not exactly the traits of a sports car!
I understand that the Fusion Sport will have the torque-vectoring GKN Twister AWD system that is used on the new Focus RS, rather than the inferior brake-based system used on the Taurus SHO. This alone places it heads above the SHO, IMO, and certainly there is no comparison in terms of traction and handling to an inferior FWD system, like the MKS, or the Accord for that matter. See the link below.

NOTE: Does anyone want to explain how the GKN Twinster differential can "over-speed the rear wheels?" This a very important feature which enhances handling in the turns.



Disclaimer: I don't have a link to substantiate that the Fusion Sport AWD will use the GKN Twinster system, but it seems illogical to me that it would not. Using the brake-based torque vectoring system would be a step backwards, IMO.

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Last edited by Graycar; 08-31-2016 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Add disclaimer and correct spelling
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post #110 of 137 Old 08-31-2016, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by centflahonda View Post
I wonder how many of you actually own the Accord V6 9th generation? All the comments about it not being this or that. No it's not designated as a sports car and Honda never made it advertised as one. It's a great daily drive with sporty characteristics. It has more than enough power for the daily driver and it has precise steering for the regular streets. It can keep up with the V6 Mustangs, Challengers, and Camaros and in fact could be faster in some cases. What's a sports car? It is whatever you want it to be in your mind. I see people in Corollas thinking it's a sports car and that is yes a bit much.
I own one and love it. You are right about what the V6 coupe is and what its not. I love driving this every day and to me a great match between daily driving and "sport" every time. On, the V6 is such a great motor for this car with very nice pickup, power to pass and very good gas mileage. I paid $28.5k for my EX-L V6 and to me, alot of car for the price.

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post #111 of 137 Old 08-31-2016, 11:56 AM
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The original definition of a sportscar is very arbitrary:

A sports car (sportscar) is a small, usually two seater, two door automobile designed for spirited performance and nimble handling.[2][3] According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, the first known use of the term was in 1928.[2] Sports cars may be spartan or luxurious, but high maneuverability and minimum weight are requisite.[4] They may be equipped for racing, "especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds."[5]

If the Accord Coupe 6-6 was RWD, I would definitely consider it a sportscar and could possibly even fit the definition with FWD. I feel like Honda could really differentiate the coupe by making it RWD.

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post #112 of 137 Old 09-02-2016, 06:24 PM
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post #113 of 137 Old 09-03-2016, 04:07 AM
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In post #110, I indicated that the Fusion Sport AWD would have the GKN torque-vectoring AWD system used on the Focus RS.

Unfortunately, that turns out not to be the case. The Fusion Sport uses the non-torque vectoring AWD system from the Ford Edge, which has a single clutch pack to engage the rear differential.


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post #114 of 137 Old 09-06-2016, 06:08 AM
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I've had my 14 6-6 coupe since mid May. Average MPG for me is 26.67, which is a good mix of back road and highway. Rarely in stop and go traffic but plenty of lights/stop signs in town.

The 6-6 is most definitely not a sports car. I'd say its a grand tourer, and a great one at that, but no sports car. Aside from being relatively quick it lacks the other attributes of a sports car. Drivetrain layout, weight, handling and braking are much more in line with a commuter car. Plus its way too reliable and practical to be a sports car
Whether mine is a sports car or not it is really a fun daily driver. For those that posted mileage do you use the Eco Button? Thanks so much for posting mileage. I just have under 800 miles on mine.
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post #115 of 137 Old 09-06-2016, 07:23 AM
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for those that posted mileage do you use the eco button?
Never.

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post #116 of 137 Old 09-06-2016, 08:20 AM
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For those that posted mileage do you use the Eco Button?
23.68 MPG for the last 4000 miles with 80% city driving. I do not use ECO button.
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post #117 of 137 Old 09-13-2016, 08:11 PM
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Or even an M3? Really? Your comparing a honda economy car to the worlds best sports sedan and being sarcastic about an M3? These tin can econo boxes that we drive are nice for what they are but an M3 is a world leader. Thats like comparing me to arnold swartzangger
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post #118 of 137 Old 09-14-2016, 07:30 AM
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It's all about perception - as in what makes any car a "Sports Car".

Technology has advanced. As a 40+ year old gear head, I've owned and driven a huge range (and amount) of cars and wrenched on all of them. My first car was a '67 SS Chevelle 4 speed car. Bench seat. Manual EVERYTHING (brakes, steering etc). When I sold it was a legitimate 11 second street car. That was a big deal in '91. It also got single digit gas mileage (who cared, high octane ethanol free, LEADED gas was cheap). It handled like a '67 SS Chevelle.

I've driven a wide range of BMW's - never owned one. Had a M3 for quite a while (friend's car, I replaced the clutch and other things and drove it enough to put 10K miles on it).

You have to draw the line somewhere in terms of budget and how far back in time you are going. If you don't, you are comparing apples to watermelons - as in not even close.

Every car has its pluses and minuses. Most people truly don't realize how little power many of the old time "sports cars" and musclecars actually had when they were new. Not to mention how little of the power actually got to the ground (bias ply tires - lovely - NOT) and how mileage wasn't even a consideration.

Too many people, even now, automatically equate the price tag with how good a performer an automobile is. Hint, most cars can perform A LOT better than the average driver will ever now / be able to handle. That's just fact.

Back in the day, when my garage / driveway ALWAYS had a project car in it and likely I also drove it A LOT (always had an old truck for back up duties) the saying was this: "Fast, Cheap, Reliable - pick two."

That applies today.

Remember - old MG's, Triumph's etc they were considered true sports cars. No amenities, tight manual steering, light weight, high-revving (but most time LOW power) engines. What used to be called a "driver's" car. The lines have blurred because of technology.

I love it when someone says "The Accord (insert almost any other car model here) is not a sports car!". By whose definition? What are the measuring points we're using to judge this? My car runs a sub 14 second 1/4 mile and is capable of 140 mph. Those two factors alone would set the Accord 6-6 apart from the huge majority of traditional "sports cars" made before the last 15 years or so.

What about handling? Well, let's be honest - many people out there have only owned FWD cars. While the addition of a larger rear sway bar helped my car handle better for me - it is still FWD. It simply handles DIFFERENTLY than a RWD or even an AWD car. That's part of the design. I know people who regularly run a FWD car in SCCA events, and due well, who think a RWD car handles horribly. I know people that think the opposite is true too. The answer is : Depends on the driver (experience and ability) and the context of how / why you are comparing / measuring handling ability.

My requirements for my DD (the role my '11 6-6 fills now) were only 2 doors and manual transmission. I didn't want a true project car. I drove different levels of the Genesis. I drove BMW's, I drove Camaros, Mustangs, FR-S, etc etc. To me it was all graded on a sliding scale. I really didn't have a budget that I had to stick to, but the higher end cars simply weren't worth the extra outlay (purchase price + insurance + upkeep) for ME and MY situation.

Don't get hung up on the Accord being a "Sports car". It does everything I want it to do, very well. For ME, that's all that matters. I'm the one paying for and working on the car. I don't do it for someone else or what someone else may think.

I do know that several acquaintances have been truly surprised after riding / driving my car. Enjoy what you can buy / work on now. If a good chunk of people have their way, there won't be a whole lot of choices in what you drive in the next 20 years or so -not to mention the fact you might not even be driving the cars, they'll be driving you.

Comparing a $30K used BMW to a used 6-6 costing half that or less is simply ridiculous. Everyone's needs / wants / desire are different when it comes to cars. Just about like everything else. Stating "The Accord isn't a sports car, stop trying to make it to one. If you want one, but XXXX, just makes you sound pompous and honestly a bit angry. To be honest if someone set a $30K budget and had a "Sports car shootout" I could build a 6-6 coupe that would outperform damn near any $30K car (used) that you can buy. Sure, you could buy a car faster in the 1/4 mile, but how would it handle? What kind of reliability and mileage would it have? You could buy a better handling car, but how would the performance be?

As for the 2 door versus 4 door argument..I have a good friend with a 4 door Caddy that would beg to differ. His car has 500HP on tap, gets good gas mileage (when your foot isn't matted to floor), has made road track lap times faster than many "True" sports cars costing thousands more, not to mention the 6 speed manual his car is equipped with. Plus just about every luxury and convenience option you can think of.

Remember this - for every person who doesn't work on their cars beyond say oil changes etc, there is someone else who can use their own skills and parts to make their car into damn near whatever they desire. That's the best thing about the car hobby in my opinion.

Just my lowly opinion.
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post #119 of 137 Old 09-14-2016, 08:15 AM
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I’d like to add another 2-cents to this discussion. Please be forewarned, this will be a little negative. When categorizing a car as a sports car, it seems we should use a reasonable benchmark. As a benchmark, I just spent some time in my daughter’s 2013 VW Golf – 2.5-liter engine mated to a 5MT. 15” steel tires. Very basic car. It’s about 7.3 seconds to 60 –peppy but not fast.

I was SHOCKED at how much better that car holds the road than my 6-6. Shocked! Its steering was far more exact and “in contact” with the road. It had a little more body roll than my car but could take corners much faster with greater confidence, even on its 15” tires. It absorbed little bumps better but also felt tighter and more stable at higher speeds. Everything felt effortless and wonderfully controlled. If I removed my car’s brute strength from the equation, the Golf would be a far better sports car.

So circling all the way back to the question is an Accord a sports car, my answer is no. Not if a basic VW Golf holds the road so much better. The Accord is at best a GT.

(And for any MT fans who wished Honda would have made our 6th gear longer, the 5MT in VW’s 2.5 Golf cranks 1,700 at 60 mph. 80 mph is about 2,200 to 2,300 rpm. The gear ratios are a little wide but still very manageable. It makes me wonder why Honda didn’t do it with six gears and a more powerful engine.)

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post #120 of 137 Old 09-14-2016, 08:30 AM
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I led a small group cruise last weekend. We hit some fairly technical (for IL) roads in the far NW part of the state (around Galena, IL). We had another G car, a 370z, and a audi a6 3.0 SC. All very competent cars. I was fully expecting the 370z and the a6 to be right behind me most of the time. Of the drivers however, none have ever driven curvy roads like this before and were surprised at the speeds I was carrying through the corners. My point is, driver experience and skill often times is as important if not more so than the type of vehicle being driven. It took many years to learn what to look for in the road to develop good sight lines, turnin point, etc.

If we can get some local chicago 6-6 drivers, I'd be willing to lead another cruise out there in the next month or so.

Edit: Baldeagle, the G does about 2800rpm in 6th gear at 80 mph. Talk about short gearing.

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