How Much Do Tires Alone Improve Handling? - Page 3 - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #31 of 41 Old 08-13-2016, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Chaidell View Post
My definition of "handling well" must be different than yours.
And the myth that to "handle well" a car has to be stupidly low and ride like an empty dump truck is entirely out of sync with reality. Especially in street conditions, a little bit of suspension travel and compliance with road imperfections actually help the car to handle better. Conquering body roll and having properly set suspension and steering settings is vastly more important and productive than super stiff springs. And, as this thread has pointed out numerous times already, tires are the most important key of all. But great tires are wasted if you don't have other things working the tires to their full potential and keeping them flatly planted on the pavement.

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post #32 of 41 Old 08-13-2016, 12:23 PM
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The handling of the 9th generation Accord is perfectly competent. I don’t have quantifiable figures such as skidpad numbers, but I can imagine that they are well in the range of every vehicle that the Accord means to compete with— if not above. Having said that though, I think that the car feels numb— and furthermore, I think that it was designed that way with the thought that most people would actually prefer it. Having owned two Preludes, and a Civic Si, I clearly value road feedback (why else would I buy those?), but that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. Not everyone is a driving enthusiast.


I love my 2016 Touring Accord for a lot of reasons and I'd buy it again— but fun factor is not among those reasons. I drive over 30K miles per year and though it’d be nice if the car was more exiting to drive, it wasn’t a priority when I got the thing. I knew what I was getting.

I do wonder about the tires and wheels though… If the car feels numb with those 19 inch wheels (and the skinny sidewalled tires that are wrapped around them), I wonder what it would feel like with smaller rims? I ask this (not so rhetorically) because I will likely get a second set of wheels for winter driving given the 19s will be more vulnerable on icy roads.

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post #33 of 41 Old 08-13-2016, 02:53 PM
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Stiffer sway bars should decrease body roll and improve feedback. Main culprit is eps. Bring back hydraulic p/s and feedback will come back too

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post #34 of 41 Old 08-13-2016, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by reframmellator View Post
When Car and Driver was a really good magazine, they consistently said the cheapest and biggest improvement you can make in your car's handling is to install a good set of tires.
I still believe that. I've proven it to myself. Using the Search feature, which apparently no one uses, I learned about Continental Pro Contact. Even before I did any suspension mods, I noticed quite an improvement in handling and high speed stability with the Contis. Regular rotation and Road Force balancing were icing on the cake.

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post #35 of 41 Old 08-13-2016, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reframmellator View Post
When Car and Driver was a really good magazine, they consistently said the cheapest and biggest improvement you can make in your car's handling is to install a good set of tires.
Word.



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post #36 of 41 Old 08-14-2016, 08:37 PM
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While not an Accord, I had Pirelli P7 tires on my Abarth and they drove great, but they wore out in 20,000 miles of easy driving. Some Abarth owners burned through them in 12,000 miles so I did really well.

That said, it was a lease and just before turn in I had to put new rubber on it to replace the P7's. I bought the absolute cheapest tire available and holy cow, the car sucked to drive! I mean anyone could tell, where before the car handled great it was now a marshmallow. It was actually scary for me to drive as I was used to better handling. It mushed into corners like the rubber was just rolling off the rim. I mean a huge difference. I drove it home, then it sat for two weeks and I drove it to dealer for turn in. I honestly felt like the tire was coming off in every corner. These were 45 series height tires, so not much sidewall to begin with really. I could wiggle the steering wheel before and the car would jump back and forth, after I'd wiggle and the car felt like it was swimming, the body was out of sync with my inputs. Honestly frightening, never buy cheap no name tires lol. This was just a month or so ago so this is quite fresh info.

Sorry for the long post, but yes, tires can make a HUGE difference in driving dynamics of a car. Much more than I'd have guessed, though I knew tires really mattered I never dreamed it would transform my car so badly for the worse with cheap tires. Anyone test driving my old Abarth will hate it until tires are changed.
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post #37 of 41 Old 08-15-2016, 07:27 AM
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Yeah, a soft tire compound will make a world of difference in handling (very common among high-performance summer tires). But the trade-off is a very short lifespan.

The lower the tire’s profile, the tighter the turn-in and more controlled the tire feels at the limit. The same can be said for a lower and stiffer suspension. Going aggressive with tire profile and suspension stiffness will improve handling, provided the road surface is good. But you can’t go too far.

The problem is most roads have blemishes which can make overly tight suspensions skitter sideways (or just feel jittery) and lose control. That is where a dose of compliance is helpful (vertical wheel travel and dampening). A little softness and a little body roll can often keep a car MUCH better planted on less than perfect roads. Anti-sway bars can be very helpful in tuning a suspension. But as those bars get stiffer, they begin to connect the motion of the right and left tires and the car begins to lose its “independent suspension” feel. The entire rear suspension can begin to move together and the car can develop some of the undesirable handling characteristics of a solid rear axle. If RSBs are taken to an extreme, they can severely hurt handling on bad road surfaces. (On a smooth track it is much less of an issue.)

It is a true art form to design a car that is both sporty and complaint. BMW is among the best. In my opinion Honda is among the worst. Suspension tuning is not Honda’s specialty. My car is jittery when it should be smooth (highway driving) and wobbly when it should be tight (transitions like when turning, accelerating and stopping).

On the subject of tires, to reduce my car’s jittery highway feel (and I am not saying stiff, jittery is different), I went from 18s to 16s. That change in tires dramatically decreased impact harshness and improved my car’s highway ride. Surprisingly, turn-in did not suffer much at all. But in this case tires had a huge impact.

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post #38 of 41 Old 08-18-2016, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Everyone:

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my questions. I really appreciate everyone's feedback. There are obviously lots of friendly, knowledgeable car drivers on this forum so thanks again for all of the input and sorry for not responding to each person individually. I did read everyone's comments, however, some more than once, so thanks again!

I think I'm going to try some some Pirelli P Zeros or Conti Extreme Contacts. That would be a lot cheaper than buying a new car. About $28,500 cheaper!

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post #39 of 41 Old 08-22-2016, 07:39 PM
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From last sunday, doing close to 2x the recommended corner speed - michelin pss. The drive out was awesome. I think the nut behind the wheel is the limiting factor on the street.

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post #40 of 41 Old 08-22-2016, 08:02 PM
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I came from a 1999 Accord before I purchased a brand new 2015 accord and I'll say the 99' definetly has way better handling and suspension than the current Accord. The electric steering just feels way too light.
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post #41 of 41 Old 08-23-2016, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Alamut View Post
I came from a 1999 Accord before I purchased a brand new 2015 accord and I'll say the 99' definetly has way better handling and suspension than the current Accord. The electric steering just feels way too light.
You haven't gotten used to it yet? Coming from the '03, I noticed the same thing steering wise, but you just have to two hand it if you are taking more serious corners, which is probably a good thing. As for the suspension being better than the '03, I would agree to a point. I had the HFP package on the '03, and I upgraded my '15 with the HFP struts, and the Progress 22mm rear sway bar, and there is no comparison to the '03 now.

GPz1100, the PSS's are awesome. Took a 30mph clover leaf the other day at 60mph, and the tires never even barked at me! Thought I heard them say, "That's all you have??" Of course, I left about a thousand miles of tread on that corner!

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