Is the CMBS supposed to brake to a complete stop? - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
7Likes
Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 17 Old 07-01-2016, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
Accord fan

davidm5's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 62
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Is the CMBS supposed to brake to a complete stop?

I was wondering if the CMBS in the Honda sensing package supposed to brake to a complete stop for you?

After seeing the commercials for the Subaru and Hyundai vehicles that do this, I wonder why our Hondas do not do this!

I was at the dealer the other day and they told me that it does not.... it only warns you.

I know that it does brake for you when you are using the ACC and does so quite aggressively I must add.

I did however have the CMBS brake for me suddenly the other day when there was a slow moving pedestrian in front of me. It surprised me because I didn't think it does that.

The main reason also for this question is the CMBS failed to brake at all when my son was driving the car and he rear ended another vehicle.

It should be renamed collision warning BS instead of mitigation....

Any thoughts?


2016 MSM Accord Touring
35% tint, 19mm rear sway bar, clear bra, LEDs all around, Weathertech mats and OEM trunk liner, door sill liner, K&N drop in filter, hardwired dashcam. Rustcure rust protection, ambient blue LEDs.
2005 Odyssey - stock except for the stereo.
davidm5 is offline
Advertisement

post #2 of 17 Old 07-01-2016, 05:34 PM
4th Gear

Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 212
Thanks: 1
Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
First, the main difference between Honda and, say, Subaru in this is that Honda is much, much more conservative with what they claim their system can do. This starts with the fact that they call it a "collision mitigation braking system" which means they do everything they can to avoid claiming that the system will prevent collisions, which no system on this planet can claim to do.

Second, while Honda does not claim in any of their user manuals that the system will prevent a collision and stop before an obstacle, in the vast majority of cases this is exactly what it will do. There's a few videos on YouTube that demonstrate that the car will in fact stop before hitting an obstacle if possible, in exactly the same way a Subie would. Again, the main difference is that Subaru has advertisements that claim exactly that, while Honda decided to avoid the liability headaches that can follow from such advertisements.

So, to answer your fist question: Honda does do this, and your dealer has no clue.

If you had read the manual you would have seen that Hondas will of course also brake for bicycles, motorcycles, and pedestrians.

As far as your son is concerned, were you there when the accident happened? Are you sure the car "did not brake at all"? Are you sure he did not disengage the CMBS? What were the circumstances? For example, no such system can guarantee that it will stop the car in time on slippery roads. You cannot beat physics... According to the manual, CMBS will also not engage below 3mph, and above 62mph (100km/h). The first one is to avoid interfering with tight parking maneuvers, the second for safety reasons.

It would have been interesting to get the EDR data (from the "black box" that all modern cars have, which records data in the last minute or so leading up to a crash). I'll bet you pennies for Dollars that the crash didn't quite happen the way your son described it to you...

So, no, Honda's CMBS is a collision avoidance braking system, and not just a warning system. Its three-stage operation is fully described in your manual. Hope this helps.

Pirx is offline
post #3 of 17 Old 07-01-2016, 08:26 PM
4th Gear

Keyboard's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
location: Owings Mills, MD
Posts: 461
Thanks: 35
Thanked 63 Times in 52 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirx View Post
First, the main difference between Honda and, say, Subaru in this is that Honda is much, much more conservative with what they claim their system can do. This starts with the fact that they call it a "collision mitigation braking system" which means they do everything they can to avoid claiming that the system will prevent collisions, which no system on this planet can claim to do.

Second, while Honda does not claim in any of their user manuals that the system will prevent a collision and stop before an obstacle, in the vast majority of cases this is exactly what it will do. There's a few videos on YouTube that demonstrate that the car will in fact stop before hitting an obstacle if possible, in exactly the same way a Subie would. Again, the main difference is that Subaru has advertisements that claim exactly that, while Honda decided to avoid the liability headaches that can follow from such advertisements.

So, to answer your fist question: Honda does do this, and your dealer has no clue.

If you had read the manual you would have seen that Hondas will of course also break for bicycles, motorcycles, and pedestrians.

As far as your son is concerned, were you there when the accident happened? Are you sure the car "did not brake at all"? Are you sure he did not disengage the CMBS? What were the circumstances? For example, no such system can guarantee that it will stop the car in time on slippery roads. You cannot beat physics... According to the manual, CMBS will also not engage below 3mph, and above 62mph (100km/h). The first one is to avoid interfering with tight parking maneuvers, the second for safety reasons.

It would have been interesting to get the EDR data (from the "black box" that all modern cars have, which records data in the last minute or so leading up to a crash). I'll bet you pennies for Dollars that the crash didn't quite happen the way your son described it to you...

So, no, Honda's CMBS is a collision avoidance braking system, and not just a warning system. Its three-stage operation is fully described in your manual. Hope this helps.
Thanks Pirx for that well thought out response. You were right on target.

It surprises me that people like the OP think that because they have safety warning and assistance systems that they no longer have to be responsible for the full control and operation of their vehicle.

My feeling is if a person has to rely on the car to do the breaking, stopping and lane adjustments, then they are not paying attention and, therefore a dangerous driver.

2018 Accord 4-Door 2.0T Touring [Color TBD - 10th gen] (Future)
2014 Accord 4-Door V6 Touring [Crystal Black Pearl - 9th gen] (Mine)
2010 Accord 4-Door EX-L V6/NAV [Bold Beige - 8th gen] (Hers)

Previously Owned:
  • 2002 Accord 4-Door EX-V6 [Noble Green - 6th gen] (Sold)
  • 1992 Accord 4-Door EX [Granada Black] - 4th gen] (Sold)
  • 1984 Accord 4-Door LX [Graphite Gray - 2nd gen] (Traded)
Keyboard is offline

post #4 of 17 Old 07-01-2016, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
Accord fan

davidm5's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 62
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanks for the responses so far.

Don't need to be overly critical of me. I wasn't even in the car when the accident happened.

I did have a dashcam record the footage which I will try and upload once I figure how to do it. My son was driving and was the the phone so probably was distracted.

The CMBS was engaged and you can hear the car beeping moments before the crash. The impact speed according the the dashcam was 50km/h or 31mph.

All I know is the system did not work for me in my situation.

That's why I posted this question here.
The service manager at the Honda dealer also mentioned that the car does not brake to a complete stop for you.

2016 MSM Accord Touring
35% tint, 19mm rear sway bar, clear bra, LEDs all around, Weathertech mats and OEM trunk liner, door sill liner, K&N drop in filter, hardwired dashcam. Rustcure rust protection, ambient blue LEDs.
2005 Odyssey - stock except for the stereo.
davidm5 is offline
post #5 of 17 Old 07-01-2016, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
Accord fan

davidm5's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 62
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyboard View Post
It surprises me that people like the OP think that because they have safety warning and assistance systems that they no longer have to be responsible for the full control and operation of their vehicle.

My feeling is if a person has to rely on the car to do the breaking, stopping and lane adjustments, then they are not paying attention and, therefore a dangerous driver.
I have been accident free since 1979 which makes it 37 years and I drive ALOT!

I even used to do alot of track events and have won over 40 racing trophies over the years.

I am definitely NOT a dangerous driver!

Look at the recent accident involving the Tesla car which the driver was killed.

Yes you cannot depend on technology.

2016 MSM Accord Touring
35% tint, 19mm rear sway bar, clear bra, LEDs all around, Weathertech mats and OEM trunk liner, door sill liner, K&N drop in filter, hardwired dashcam. Rustcure rust protection, ambient blue LEDs.
2005 Odyssey - stock except for the stereo.
davidm5 is offline
post #6 of 17 Old 07-02-2016, 08:55 AM
4th Gear

Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 212
Thanks: 1
Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm5 View Post
Don't need to be overly critical of me. I wasn't even in the car when the accident happened.
Oh no, I wasn't trying to criticize you, and I was pretty sure you were not present at the time of the accident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm5 View Post
The CMBS was engaged and you can hear the car beeping moments before the crash. The impact speed according the the dashcam was 50km/h or 31mph.
Hmm, that's very interesting. There's a number of additional factors that could have played a role, too. For example, I have seen that somewhere Honda says that CMBS may disengage if you perform an evasive maneuver, which the system detects from your steering input. Bottom line is that no current system can guarantee that it will prevent a collision in all cases. They're just not at the required level of intelligence yet. As a matter of fact, it is clear that there can always be situations where no system, no matter how smart, will prevent an accident.

At least in a situation like the one that killed that Tesla driver recently, Honda's CMBS would most likely have engaged the brakes, since it uses radar, whereas the Tesla seems to rely exclusively on video input. But again, nobody knows whether or not that means the driver would have survived had he driven a Honda instead of a Tesla. Most importantly, certainly in the case of the Tesla driver, and quite likely in the case of your son, irresponsible behavior of the driver was probably the main culprit.
Pirx is offline
post #7 of 17 Old 07-03-2016, 07:11 AM
Super Moderator

Aviography's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
location: Canada
Posts: 10,005
Thanks: 59
Thanked 271 Times in 205 Posts
This video of a Volvo says it all.


2005 Satin Silver V6 Coupe 6 speed
TL shift knob, Hidden Hitch, Venture Shield clear protetive film,
GM Friction Modified Synchromesh transmission fluid,
2007 Acura TL-S front/rear sway bars,
Clutch slave cylinder restrictor valve delete.

Acura TL 5-spoke rims 245/45-17 Bridgestone Pole Position RE970
Honda steel rims 225/55-16 Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3


__________________
DA Moderator Team


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Aviography is offline
post #8 of 17 Old 07-03-2016, 09:04 AM
4th Gear

Keyboard's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
location: Owings Mills, MD
Posts: 461
Thanks: 35
Thanked 63 Times in 52 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aviography View Post
This video of a Volvo says it all.

Yes, the video confirms that the driver needs to be in total control and operation of their vehicle instead of relying on the car's technology.

It's a good thing that the guy standing in front of the car didn't get seriously hurt or killed when the car hit him. I like the comment where someone says "That's why they use dummies for tests". The reply was "They did".

2018 Accord 4-Door 2.0T Touring [Color TBD - 10th gen] (Future)
2014 Accord 4-Door V6 Touring [Crystal Black Pearl - 9th gen] (Mine)
2010 Accord 4-Door EX-L V6/NAV [Bold Beige - 8th gen] (Hers)

Previously Owned:
  • 2002 Accord 4-Door EX-V6 [Noble Green - 6th gen] (Sold)
  • 1992 Accord 4-Door EX [Granada Black] - 4th gen] (Sold)
  • 1984 Accord 4-Door LX [Graphite Gray - 2nd gen] (Traded)
Keyboard is offline
post #9 of 17 Old 07-03-2016, 04:30 PM
4th Gear

Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 212
Thanks: 1
Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyboard View Post
It's a good thing that the guy standing in front of the car didn't get seriously hurt or killed when the car hit him. I like the comment where someone says "That's why they use dummies for tests". The reply was "They did".
Dummies? That's too kind. "Complete morons" is more like it...
Pirx is offline
post #10 of 17 Old 07-03-2016, 08:46 PM
6th Gear

easymike's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
location: Watertown, Connecticut
Posts: 1,398
Thanks: 31
Thanked 102 Times in 93 Posts
Garage
Wanna test the CMBS on your car? fill up an innertube and drive at it at various speeds in a parking lot. I assume this will work without damaging your car?
Catfisha likes this.

Current vehicle:
2014 Honda Accord LX 6MT 103K
easy mods and changes:
*55W HID lowbeam 5000K (Innovited upgrade kit)
*LasFit 9005 HB3 highbeam / DRL 6500k
*Interior trunk handle
*Trunk cargo net
*All weather floor mats from College Hills Honda
*Gutter Guards behind lower grille

Previous vehicles:
2001 Chevy Prizm 3AT (given away, it was a terrible car...)
1995 Honda Accord DX 5MT (wrecked at 240K)
1989 Honda Civic LX 4AT (wrecked at 180K)
1988 GMC Sierra 1500 5MT (sold at 80K)
easymike is offline
post #11 of 17 Old 07-04-2016, 03:20 AM
4th Gear

Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 212
Thanks: 1
Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by easymike View Post
Wanna test the CMBS on your car? fill up an innertube and drive at it at various speeds in a parking lot. I assume this will work without damaging your car?
Not sure about the inner tube, but I have seen people use a big empty carton, covered in aluminum foil to make sure the radar won't ignore it, and drive towards that.
Pirx is offline
post #12 of 17 Old 07-04-2016, 05:55 AM
6th Gear

easymike's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
location: Watertown, Connecticut
Posts: 1,398
Thanks: 31
Thanked 102 Times in 93 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirx View Post
Not sure about the inner tube, but I have seen people use a big empty carton, covered in aluminum foil to make sure the radar won't ignore it, and drive towards that.
As long as it doesn't scratch the bumper on its way under your car. These are things I'd love to see a thread for. Various household objects that trigger the CMBS.

Current vehicle:
2014 Honda Accord LX 6MT 103K
easy mods and changes:
*55W HID lowbeam 5000K (Innovited upgrade kit)
*LasFit 9005 HB3 highbeam / DRL 6500k
*Interior trunk handle
*Trunk cargo net
*All weather floor mats from College Hills Honda
*Gutter Guards behind lower grille

Previous vehicles:
2001 Chevy Prizm 3AT (given away, it was a terrible car...)
1995 Honda Accord DX 5MT (wrecked at 240K)
1989 Honda Civic LX 4AT (wrecked at 180K)
1988 GMC Sierra 1500 5MT (sold at 80K)
easymike is offline
post #13 of 17 Old 07-04-2016, 07:35 AM
V6 6MT CBP

200366HFP's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2013
location: Twin Cities
Posts: 1,959
Thanks: 19
Thanked 196 Times in 178 Posts
Garage
All this crap is why I DO NOT WANT any of it, and is why I have tape over my forward camera.

2003 I4-AT LX Sedan (Daughter's car)
2003 V6-6MT HFP Coupe (Son's car)
2015 V6-6MT Coupe
200366HFP is offline
post #14 of 17 Old 07-09-2016, 08:23 PM
6th Gear

Join Date: Mar 2014
location: SoCal
Posts: 1,344
Thanks: 145
Thanked 94 Times in 83 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirx View Post
Oh no, I wasn't trying to criticize you, and I was pretty sure you were not present at the time of the accident.



Hmm, that's very interesting. There's a number of additional factors that could have played a role, too. For example, I have seen that somewhere Honda says that CMBS may disengage if you perform an evasive maneuver, which the system detects from your steering input. Bottom line is that no current system can guarantee that it will prevent a collision in all cases. They're just not at the required level of intelligence yet. As a matter of fact, it is clear that there can always be situations where no system, no matter how smart, will prevent an accident.

At least in a situation like the one that killed that Tesla driver recently, Honda's CMBS would most likely have engaged the brakes, since it uses radar, whereas the Tesla seems to rely exclusively on video input. But again, nobody knows whether or not that means the driver would have survived had he driven a Honda instead of a Tesla. Most importantly, certainly in the case of the Tesla driver, and quite likely in the case of your son, irresponsible behavior of the driver was probably the main culprit.
That there is I think what happened. As I seem to understand if you are making inputs the car will not override them. I'd like to see the dashcam video but I think what may have happened with the OP's son is that he started hitting the brake himself and at that point the CMBS disengaged.
CheezyPoofs is offline
post #15 of 17 Old 07-09-2016, 09:07 PM
Out of Control

II Kings 9:20's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,303
Thanks: 177
Thanked 360 Times in 279 Posts
Glad the crash wasn't any worse. My son is driving my '13 now without CMBS.

Honda's FCW is an absolute joke and if the CBMS is based on the FCW, you're better off with nothing. The erratic and usually unresponsive FCW has been discussed here at length for nearly 4 years. Now we may see lots of threads about ineffective CMBS. A cardboard box in a driveway at 10 MPH is a pretty easy test any of you can do. I have tested my FCW in this fashion and guess what: FAIL. It does occasionally chime out on the road.


Ex-L 4cyl, White Pearl/Ivory
Honda factory LED Touring Headlight, 3M Di-NOC Bubinga wood vinyl dash trim, Horn Upgrade, LED interior, trunk, license, Splash Guards

II Kings 9:20-"The driving is like the driving of Jehu the son of Nimshi, for he driveth furiously."
II Kings 9:20 is offline
Advertisement

Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Drive Accord Honda Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
The answer to the random question may be found under the Off Topic section of the forums and in the "Drive Accord Forums" category.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

For the best viewing experience please update your browser to


Related pages


katskins leatherhonda k24 turbocode for 2001 honda civic radiohydro2 reviewpcm power relay2004 honda accord timing belt replacementhonda accord euro timing beltdip dissolver home depotwhat is tire rotviper manual remote startaftermarket overhead consolehonda service code a12aries 3d floor mats1999 honda accord ex sedanmugen visorsbattery for 2005 honda accordhondanavi.comhonda care pricingblind spot detection system installationrust check coat and protect reviewslide hammer hub pullerdynomax resonatorhonda caliper coverscl9 jdm1999 honda accord oxygen sensor replacementcar shakes at low speeds5x112 bolt pattern carsrear decklid spoilervalvoline synthetic motor oilmy key wont turn in the ignitionxm radio trialwindshield surgeonapexi air filter2000 honda odyssey headlight bulb2004 saturn vue transmission problems2002 honda civic wheelspep boys car batteriesouter tie rod torque specslou sobh honda jacksonville8th gen civic coilover install2002 honda civic control armhonda accord 2004 radio code2004 accord recalllubegard shudder fixreplacing window sealnetdrive alternativehondalink next generationacura rl a spec5x100 fit 5x114 3audison bit ten softwarehow to apply xzilon paint protection2008 honda accord mugen grillwhen to use eco mode priustein comfort sport coilovershonda civic floor mats 2007honda accord window tint cost2001 honda accord coupe fog lightsweatherbeaters floor mats2006 honda civic dash kit98 cobra rimsi vtec stickeracura rl bolt patternis the scion frs fastcoilovers teinwww.acuranavi.comhonda accord cvt transmission reviewoil filter purolatorhonda accord coupe forumhonda crv ball jointsteering wheel making noise when turningburlwood dash kitsopt7car hesitates on acceleration2009 honda pilot radio unlock code