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post #1 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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Top Tier gas

I just got done downloading some 2013 manuals to my iPad. I was looking at the last page of the Technology Reference where it talks about MMT and Top Tier gas. It looks like that MMT is nasty stuff. It also looks like if you always buy Top Tier gas you will never find any that contains MMT. Did I interpret that passage correctly?


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post #2 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by HondaBob View Post
I just got done downloading some 2013 manuals to my iPad. I was looking at the last page of the Technology Reference where it talks about MMT and Top Tier gas. It looks like that MMT is nasty stuff. It also looks like if you always buy Top Tier gas you will never find any that contains MMT. Did I interpret that passage correctly?
  1. Honda endorses the use of "TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline."
  2. Honda "...strongly recommend[s] the use of gasoline that does NOT contain hamrful manganese-based fuel additives such as MMT, if such gasoline is available."
  3. From the Top Tier web site: "In addition, conformance to the standards shall mean gasoline sold in the selected nation shall not contain metallic additives, including methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT)."

So Honda says use Top Tier and avoid MMT. Top Tier standard requires no MMT. Seems consistent to me.


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post #3 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 10:22 AM
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After multiple tanks of gas to test this theory my car gets 2-3mpg better on Shell gas then it does BP and both are regular unleaded in my test. It gets the worse gas mileage using Hess gas. This is watching the tank averages and a very consistent country road commute to work for 35 miles one way with virtually no traffic running 59mph.
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post #4 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 11:06 AM
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What theory?

BP and Shell are both TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Retailers. Hess is Not. Neither is Gulf.
Anyone else have such mileage disparities with different gasolines?

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post #5 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve H. View Post
After multiple tanks of gas to test this theory my car gets 2-3mpg better on Shell gas then it does BP and both are regular unleaded in my test. It gets the worse gas mileage using Hess gas. This is watching the tank averages and a very consistent country road commute to work for 35 miles one way with virtually no traffic running 59mph.
Please be careful with these statements. BP and Shell are both top tier. Your mileage should NOT vary. Did you actually track your mileage – fill the tank each time and divide the miles traveled during the last tank by the gallons needed to fill it? Did you do that for tank after tank after tank? If yes, what were your exact numbers?

Also, you must not compare summer fuel mileage to winter fuel mileage. Winter is always worse, even on the same brand of fuel. You must also avoid comparing fuel economy on winter blend fuel to summer blend fuel. The “colder” states just changed from winter to summer fuel last month (May 1st). All summer blend fuel gets better fuel economy than winter blend. If you used BP in April and Shell in May, you might have very well seen an increase in fuel economy, but it had nothing to do with Shell fuel being superior to BP. It had to do with all gas companies changing from winter to summer blend.

Seriously all things equal, one gas will not provide 10% better fuel economy than other. (Unless it is pure gas - no ethanol.) All gas comes from the same refineries. Any additives are added after the fuel leaves the hub. Further, most of those additives are for keeping the fuel system and engine clean – for longevity. They don’t give the car more power or increase fuel economy.

I believe MMT is used to increase octane. But it is super toxic – less toxic than lead but still very bad for us. I believe Honda formally states to avoid gasoline with MMT because it creates deposits in the engine and exhaust system. I also believe it voids the warranty.
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post #6 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve H. View Post
After multiple tanks of gas to test this theory my car gets 2-3mpg better on Shell gas then it does BP and both are regular unleaded in my test. It gets the worse gas mileage using Hess gas. This is watching the tank averages and a very consistent country road commute to work for 35 miles one way with virtually no traffic running 59mph.
Let us know if this is consistently true among multiple Shell Stations or was it just 1 particular location. It may just have been that this particular Shell station's gas doesn't have the 10% ethanol mixed into it.

I had a similar thing happen to me when driving from Florida to NJ. 3 tanks of fuel, constant 75 MPH. The third tank of gas from an Exxon Station in Virginia got us 3 MPG more (2012 Honda Odyssey) than the other 2.

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post #7 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 11:24 AM
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I always get 8% - 10% better fuel economy with 100% gasoline instead of that 90% gas + 10% ethanol crap. And oh yes, ethanol is crap.

If your Shell station is selling 100% gas and BP is 90% + 10% crap, then that could be your answer.....
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post #8 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldeagle View Post

Also, you must not compare summer fuel mileage to winter fuel mileage. Winter is always worse, even on the same brand of fuel. You must also avoid comparing fuel economy on winter blend fuel to summer blend fuel. The “colder” states just changed from winter to summer fuel last month (May 1st). All summer blend fuel gets better fuel economy than winter blend. If you used BP in April and Shell in May, you might have very well seen an increase in fuel economy, but it had nothing to do with Shell fuel being superior to BP. It had to do with all gas companies changing from winter to summer blend.
+1
I always get my best mileage in May because of the Summer blend fuel and that its not yet warm enough to run the A/C
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post #9 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 11:39 AM
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Crazy that Costco Wholesale fuel is top tier now.

Save some money on fuel now.

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post #10 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RickBlaine View Post
I always get 8% - 10% better fuel economy with 100% gasoline instead of that 90% gas + 10% ethanol crap. And oh yes, ethanol is crap.
Rick, who around here (our immediate area) sells real gas? I used to be able to buy it out by rockford, but pumps now state 'may contain up to 10% alcohol'.

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post #11 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 12:50 PM
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Top tier premium (91+ octane) around me costs 50 to 70 cents more a gallon, which is consistently higher than non top tier providers premium.

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post #12 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 01:02 PM
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Crazy that Costco Wholesale fuel is top tier now.

Save some money on fuel now.

+1

I've been running nothing but Costco for 9 months now. Bundle that with the Amex TrueEarnings card and not only are you enjoying the lowest prices, but you're also receiving 3% cash back as well.

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post #13 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by GPz1100 View Post
Rick, who around here (our immediate area) sells real gas? I used to be able to buy it out by rockford, but pumps now state 'may contain up to 10% alcohol'.
No one, sadly Closest to us is 65 miles away in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin.

Every November, just before the snow and road salt, I take my rust-free 1991 Nissan 240sx up to Lake Geneva with a 5 gallon and a 2.5 gallon gas can. I fill the Nissan up as well as the cans. When I get back to our hometown of Skokie, IL (Gangster Baby Face Nelson was dumped here in 1934) I put the 2.5 gallon to top off the Nissan where it stays all winter away from the road salt (and since no ethanol, does not attract water so it starts right up 5 months later) and use the 5 gallon for my 9 HP snowthrower and lawn mower. They each start on the first pull and are at least 12 years old.

65 mile trip, but worth it for my beloved 240sx.....she HATES ethanol.
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post #14 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 05:27 PM
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I have Shell around here. Got a Shell gas credit card that gives me the cash price at local stations, plus 5 cents cash back. Signed up for the Shell rewards program, a separate card, that gives me 3 cents back. So, with the two cards, I get 8 cents off/back from the cash price at Shell stations.

Hard to beat that.

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post #15 of 38 Old 06-05-2015, 09:02 PM
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Wasn't aware that Arco is a top tier gasoline company. I've been running 76 these last 3 fill-ups and have been averaging about 420 miles on my V6 paying about $0.30 more. On my next couple fill-ups I'll go to Arco and see if I see any difference.

Does anyone put Chevron Fuel-injector cleaner in their cars? I want to but considering mines a 2015 and I'm not sure how early I should start using it.


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