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post #31 of 96 Old 11-14-2013, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaretr1 View Post
Honda basically specifies to change the oil based on the maintenance minder. They also recommend checking and changing both the air filter and cabin filter yearly if needed. Honda also recommends flushing the brake fluid ever 3 years regardless of mileage. Transmission fluid I beleive is recommended to be changed at 60k, spark plugs, timing belt (for V6), and coolant at 100k miles.
You are correct about the brake fluid, but on all the other items you are not, unless you know the mileages or time intervals underlying the various subcodes the MM displays. No such times or miles as you have quoted are specified, except for "extreme" driving condition exceptions to the MM. See the OM.


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post #32 of 96 Old 11-14-2013, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HondaBob View Post
Let me clarify and simplify. The computer doesn't know when you do anything maintenance wise to your car. When you reset the MM, you are telling the MM you did the maintenance it called for. The only smart thing the MM does is adjust maintenance intervals based on what kind of driving you do.
That's pretty much what I figured. Sounds like it'll be easy enough to just dismiss it as it comes, as long as I've already done the work.


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post #33 of 96 Old 11-14-2013, 05:40 PM
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Its good for the life of the car, no service interval. And its a chain, too!

Jay
Jay, I have a 2013 EX-L L4 and I was told by service at the dealer I bought from that has a regular timing belt not a chain. Anyone confirm its a chain or a regular belt that needs replacement.

Also got to love the PDF in previous post to change spark plugs at 30K. WOW
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post #34 of 96 Old 11-14-2013, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ValleyDavid View Post
Jay, I have a 2013 EX-L L4 and I was told by service at the dealer I bought from that has a regular timing belt not a chain. Anyone confirm its a chain or a regular belt that needs replacement.

Also got to love the PDF in previous post to change spark plugs at 30K. WOW
Story Behind the 2013 Ward's 10 Best Engines
This new 2.4L 4-cyl. is the first production beneficiary of "Earth Dreams” technology, Honda's whimsical name for a set of next-generation advancements aimed at improving performance and efficiency.

The Ward’s 10 Best Engines competition has recognized outstanding powertrain achievement for 19 years. In this installment of the 2013 Behind the 10 Best Engines series, WardsAuto looks at the development of Honda’s naturally aspirated 2.4L I-4.

As more auto makers discontinue optional V-6s in favor of more powerful, often turbocharged I-4s, there's no shortage of excellent “base” 4-cyl. engines in the North American market.

This includes today's crowded and cutthroat midsize-sedan segment. Most of these vehicles use 2.4L or 2.5L engines generating between 170 hp and 200 hp.

But only one naturally aspirated I-4, Honda's new 2.4L gasoline direct-injection i-VTEC, standard in the ’13 Accord sedan and coupe, earns a 2013 Ward's 10 Best Engines award. It stands out from the rest of this hard-working pack in a number of ways, especially in refinement.

As the base powerplant in the ’13 Accord, it delivers 185 hp and 181 lb.-ft. (246 Nm) of torque, 4% more power and 12% more grunt than its predecessor. But the version that WardsAuto editors tested in the 6-speed-manual Accord Sport sedan, aided by a high-flow exhaust system, larger-diameter tubing and dual outlets for 52% more flow, ups that ante to a livelier 189 hp and 182 lb.-ft. (247 Nm).

Following 537 miles (864 km) of testing, editors report it delivered the happy combination of ample low-end torque, "wonderful" mid-range punch and "outstanding" high-rpm power while averaging an excellent 33 mpg (7.1 L/100 km). Then they laud it as "sophisticated beyond its price" and gush about how it "secures Honda's engine legacy."

As Honda's first U.S.-market DI engine, it can be mated with either the 6-speed manual or a new continuously variable transmission that also is a Honda first. Fuel economy of the standard version is 24/34 mpg (9.8-6.9 L/100 km) city/highway with the manual and a more impressive 27/36 mpg (8.7-6.5 L/100 km) with the CVT, while the higher-output Sport version tests the same with the manual and 1 mpg lower with the CVT. That's roughly on par with most competitors but slightly south of Mazda's new SkyActiv Mazda6 2.4L/6-speed auto and Nissan's Altima 2.5L I-4/CVT.

This new 2.4L 4-cyl. is the first production beneficiary of "Earth Dreams” technology, Honda's whimsical name for a set of next-generation technology advancements aimed at improving performance and efficiency. This includes gasoline DI, new-design combustion chambers, offset cylinder bores, a more efficient accessory belt design, a range of friction reducing technologies and a 3.5% reduction in engine weight thanks mostly to a lighter die-cast-aluminum block and a new resin cam cover.

"We are not only developing engines to improve fuel economy and comply with increasing awareness of environment impact," says Honda R&D Chief Engineer Toshihiro Akiwa via e-mail. "We also were aiming for major evolution in both fuel economy and dynamic performance by renovating the engine structure. This is the first attempt to apply ‘Earth Dreams’ technology with the goal to also satisfy Honda 'Joy to Drive' at a high level."

Key design objectives were achieving top-of-class fuel economy and acceleration, where the new CVT plays a major role, Akiwa says.

“(To do that) we reduced the structure weight and friction and adopted direct injection for better combustion performance to substantially improve fuel economy and torque," Akiwa says.

What were the most difficult challenges in achieving those objectives, and how were they overcome?

"An even fuel-air mixture in the cylinders is necessary to obtain stable combustion," he says. "That can be achieved with an intake port that forms a strong tumble, but that port design can also reduce the volume of air intake. So the challenge is creating the balance that achieves good tumble and high output.

"We did that by optimizing the contour of the port and the combustion chamber and combining that with VTEC variable valve-lift technology to realize both stable DI combustion and high output. Along with that, we also used CAE (computer simulation) to analyze the air-fuel ratio distribution and optimize the fuel-spray pattern and injection timing."

The lightweight pressure-cast aluminum cylinder head's exhaust ports are on its front side (vs. the previous engine's back-side ports) so the close-coupled catalytic converter can mount directly to the head without a separate exhaust manifold. The dual overhead cams (with improved journal finish to reduce friction) and four valves per cylinder are driven by a silent chain with a friction-reducing double-arm tensioner. A pair of chain-driven counter-rotating shafts in the oil pan take care of the second-order harmonic vibrations common to I-4 engines.

The cylinder head's new high-tumble intake-port design helps create both a homogenous fuel mixture for lower fuel consumption and high airflow for high power output. The combustion chamber shape and valve angles have been optimized with a narrower 35-degree angle (compared with the previous 51 degrees) between the intake and exhaust valves. This change decreases the surface-to-volume ratio and helps create a flatter, more compact combustion chamber that reduces unburned hydrocarbon emissions and enables a higher compression ratio of (11.1:1 compared with 10.5:1) without the need for premium fuel.

Another key contributor to higher output, fuel efficiency and low emissions is Honda's i-VTEC (intelligent Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control). The system's "intelligence" lies in its ability to continuously vary intake-cam timing, based on input from sensors that monitor rpm, throttle opening, cam position and exhaust air-fuel ratio, relative to the exhaust cam.

This helps boost power and provides a smoother idle at lower speeds. Also at low engine speeds, i-VTEC optimizes intake valve timing and lift for rapid swirl-pattern cylinder filling. Then, as engine rpm builds past 4,800 rpm, it transitions to a high-lift, long-duration profile for superior high-rpm output.

The GDI system uses a compact high-pressure pump that allows both high fuel flow and pulsation suppression while variable pressure control optimizes operation of the injectors. A multi-hole injector delivers fuel directly into each cylinder to create the ideal fuel/air mixture with a stratified-charge effect: A richer mixture near the spark plug for easy ignition. This maximizes efficiency at lower power, helps cold-engine start-up and reduces emissions before normal operating temperature is reached.

To ease internal friction, the cylinder bores are offset from the crankshaft by 8.0 mm (0.31 in.) to give the connecting rods a more favorable angle, and the forged-steel crankshaft's journals are micropolished. The lightweight pistons' skirt design is optimized to minimize reciprocating weight and vibration, and their crowns are dished for more stable combustion and optimized fuel-charge distribution from the injectors.

A unique dot-pattern coating on the outer skirts of the pistons and 2-stage plateau cylinder-bore honing combine to lessen friction between the pistons and cylinders; the latter by creating an ultra-smooth surface that also decreases long-term wear. Friction is reduced further by the use of low-viscosity (0W-20) oil.

Finally, high-efficiency catalytic converters are key contributors to the engine's excellent emissions performance. The first mounts directly to the front of the cylinder head for fast activation after engine start-up, while a second converter is slightly downstream under the cabin floor. Both use a thin-wall design that increases internal reaction area and improves efficiency to help meet stringent California ULEV-2 and Federal Tier 2 Bin 5 certifications.

We asked Akiwa whether there is opportunity for future improvement to satisfy both customer and government demands. All he would say is Honda will keep working to "continuously improve fuel economy and performance."

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post #35 of 96 Old 11-14-2013, 06:31 PM
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Thanks for the article on the 2.4 Earth Dreams engine in the Accord. In my opinion this engine mated to the CVT transmission is a technological marvel of smoothness, fuel economy and performance. Additionally it runs on regular gas.

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post #36 of 96 Old 11-14-2013, 09:34 PM
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"So the challenge is creating the balance that achieves good tumble and high output."

Welcome to the argument about port-polish intake vs. leaving it alone.

"and the forged-steel crankshaft's journals are micropolished. "

Doesn't it kinda get "polished" anyways through running the engine?

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post #37 of 96 Old 11-15-2013, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValleyDavid View Post
Jay, I have a 2013 EX-L L4 and I was told by service at the dealer I bought from that has a regular timing belt not a chain. Anyone confirm its a chain or a regular belt that needs replacement.

Also got to love the PDF in previous post to change spark plugs at 30K. WOW
That's really hilarious that the service dep't would tell you it's a belt. I don't know if I'd be taking my car there for service!!

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post #38 of 96 Old 11-15-2013, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by drowned12 View Post
"and the forged-steel crankshaft's journals are micropolished. "

Doesn't it kinda get "polished" anyways through running the engine?
Not if the engine oil is doing its job. Good engines that run good oil can still have the production info printed on the bearings after 100,000+ miles.

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That's really hilarious that the service dep't would tell you it's a belt. I don't know if I'd be taking my car there for service!!
It was one of the features of the 9th gen my salesman told me when I was test driving the car. He was a pro, tho. He really knew the product and how to sell it. I guess that is how we ended up with two Hondas in two months.

Jay

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post #39 of 96 Old 11-15-2013, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HondaBob View Post
You are correct about the brake fluid, but on all the other items you are not, unless you know the mileages or time intervals underlying the various subcodes the MM displays. No such times or miles as you have quoted are specified, except for "extreme" driving condition exceptions to the MM. See the OM.
I can assure you I will be checking my air filters yearly and replacing them as needed (well at least until I install the intake). My transmission fluid will get changed at 60k. My spark plugs and timing belt no later than 100k if not sooner. Regardless of my oil minder, I change my oil every 5k. I personally beleive in maintenance. I followed this same maintenance schedule with my RSX and it never once had a single mechanical problem, not one. Not a single warrantee claim. To each their own though.
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post #40 of 96 Old 11-15-2013, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaretr1 View Post
I can assure you I will be checking my air filters yearly and replacing them as needed (well at least until I install the intake). My transmission fluid will get changed at 60k. My spark plugs and timing belt no later than 100k if not sooner. Regardless of my oil minder, I change my oil every 5k. I personally beleive in maintenance. I followed this same maintenance schedule with my RSX and it never once had a single mechanical problem, not one. Not a single warrantee claim. To each their own though.
I think one of the points implied in my previous reply to you was that, if you didn't have a "regular" maintenance schedule, or you didn't otherwise have knowledge of the mileages underlying the subcodes and when the MM calls for them to be performed, you may be wrong on your transmission fluid interval of 60K miles, coolant at 100K, or whatever else you change based on miles. I.E., maybe the MM would have you change them sooner than your schedule. But hey, you know best.

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post #41 of 96 Old 11-16-2013, 07:00 AM
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It appears mm really only varies the oil change timeline depending on conditions. Everything else (trans oil, spark, timing, rotation, etc) is tied to mileage.

The danger for those who like to change things at a specific mileage point (myself) is that it resets the code so things could get missed. If you are going to do things yourself based on mileage, it is best to let the codes pop-up before resetting. It's a no-brainer for oil changes but you don't want to miss the other things. I like to do this and keep a log.

The system was completely designed for those who neglect maintenance on their vehicles. Putting up an advisory telling people what to do ensures there is a better chance it will get done.

I have seen many get jumped on or bashed because they choose to do maintenance on an interval basis. What is wrong with being meticulous if you plan to hold on to a car for a while? I can assure you multi-million dollar aircraft don't pop a light telling the operator when an "oil change" is due. It's done on an interval basis with maintenance being meticulously tracked.
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post #42 of 96 Old 11-16-2013, 07:07 AM
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It appears mm really only varies the oil change timeline depending on conditions. Everything else (trans oil, spark, timing, rotation, etc) is tied to mileage.

The danger for those who like to change things at a specific mileage point (myself) is that it resets the code so things could get missed. If you are going to do things yourself based on mileage, it is best to let the codes pop-up before resetting. It's a no-brainer for oil changes but you don't want to miss the other things. I like to do this and keep a log.

The system was completely designed for those who neglect maintenance on their vehicles. Putting up an advisory telling people what to do ensures there is a better chance it will get done.

I have seen many get jumped on or bashed because they choose to do maintenance on an interval basis. What is wrong with being meticulous if you plan to hold on to a car for a while? I can assure you multi-million dollar aircraft don't pop a light telling the operator when an "oil change" is due. It's done on an interval basis with maintenance being meticulously tracked.
It's actually done under the principles of RMC and RMC II along with oil analysis. If you are not doing oil analysies you are throwing money down the drain. But hey, what ever helps you sleep at night.

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post #43 of 96 Old 04-19-2014, 05:06 AM
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Maintenance Schedule

What is the maintenance schedule for these newer accords? Mainly I am talking about the major items, transmission fluid change, spark plugs. And how much do each of these typically cost? I am not a owner, but may be in line to buy one soon.
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post #44 of 96 Old 04-19-2014, 05:47 AM
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What is the maintenance schedule for these newer accords? Mainly I am talking about the major items, transmission fluid change, spark plugs. And how much do each of these typically cost? I am not a owner, but may be in line to buy one soon.
V6-6AT: Transmission fluid change every 50k-60K ($100), Timing Belt-Spark Plug, Water Pump - Tensioner - Drive Belt - Idle Pulley at 100K miles ($800-$1200)

I4-CVT: CVT Fluid every 50-60K ($100), Carbon Deposit Removal from Valves ($500-800) every 100k miles, Spark Plugs at 100K ($150), Water pump at 200k miles ($400), Coolant drain and refill at 100k ($100).

These do not include general costs like tires, brakes, oil and so forth.
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post #45 of 96 Old 04-19-2014, 08:58 AM
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V6-6AT: Transmission fluid change every 50k-60K ($100), Timing Belt-Spark Plug, Water Pump - Tensioner - Drive Belt - Idle Pulley at 100K miles ($800-$1200)

I4-CVT: CVT Fluid every 50-60K ($100), [B]Carbon Deposit Removal from Valves [/B]($500-800) every 100k miles, Spark Plugs at 100K ($150), Water pump at 200k miles ($400), Coolant drain and refill at 100k ($100).

These do not include general costs like tires, brakes, oil and so forth.
Pure speculation on MN Runner's part. Not one iota of truth in this statement.

Everything else is about right, depending on local labor rates.


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