A little more bass without a true subwoofer - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 19 Old 02-17-2011, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 389
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
A little more bass without a true subwoofer

I know that I'm trying to "have my cake and eat it" too with this topic...

I want to add a little more bass without having to install a sub. I've done it before in my old Camry. I ran 6X9's in the fronts and rears and amped them with about 60W RMS each. It sounded like a I had an 8" sub in there, the bass was decent, considering no subwoofer.

But with my Gen8, it's 6.5" all around. Even if I amped them all up, they won't come close to the 6X9's. So I'm thinking of 2 options that might help with a little more bass:

1. high-quality components with good amp power in the front (looking at Alpine or JL) or
2. 6.5" subs in the OEM rear deck holes.

I drove a rental Nissan Sentra years back that had good bass. I wondered why it was so bassy, and it turned out it had a powered 6.5" sub in the rear deck in addition to the rear speakers. I figured 2 subs (although only 6.5") would sound even better.

In short I want to try to add bass without adding a sub in the trunk or cutting into the rear deck for a 8" sub. I'm open to all ideas, thanks!

kalel34 is offline
Advertisement

post #2 of 19 Old 02-17-2011, 06:52 PM
2016 Nissan Maxima Platnm

hillstones's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,578
Thanks: 9
Thanked 77 Times in 58 Posts
Have you thought about mounting 6x9s from below in the rear deck? Aftermarket 6x9s can be installed either from below or dropped down from above. From below, you would not need a 6x9 hole in the deck. You would lose some trunk space since they will be deeper, but all you have to do is drill new holes. Unless Honda screwed up the rear deck to prevent 6x9s from being installed from below.

Oh, and get ready to be flamed because the "rear speaker haters" will find the thread and say you are nuts.

hillstones is offline
post #3 of 19 Old 02-17-2011, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 389
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post
Have you thought about mounting 6x9s from below in the rear deck? Aftermarket 6x9s can be installed either from below or dropped down from above. From below, you would not need a 6x9 hole in the deck. You would lose some trunk space since they will be deeper, but all you have to do is drill new holes. Unless Honda screwed up the rear deck to prevent 6x9s from being installed from below.

Oh, and get ready to be flamed because the "rear speaker haters" will find the thread and say you are nuts.
Yes, I looked into bottom-mounting 6X9's in the rear. But after looking, the holes are very irregularly shaped and too close to the trunk lid hinge/mechanism. It would take some creative fabrication to come up with a template/baffle to make them fit right.

I don't care about rear-speaker haters anyways. I wouldn't be using the 6X9's as full range. I'd power them with a small sub amp and low pass them. Cadence makes these really heavy-duty 6x9 subs (no built-in tweeters or midrange drivers).
kalel34 is offline

post #4 of 19 Old 02-18-2011, 04:11 AM
5th Gear

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 926
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
You need 3 things

Components
a lot of power( 300+ x 2)
Deadened and sealed door
mrmondaynight is offline
post #5 of 19 Old 02-18-2011, 05:18 AM
5th Gear

Join Date: Aug 2009
location: AL
Posts: 628
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to PaulD
if you put 6 1/2" subs in the rear deck, you will to enclose them some how to get any real bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post
Whenever I see a "thumpin" car, the male driver is always alone because no one wants to ride in his car.
PaulD is offline
post #6 of 19 Old 02-18-2011, 05:27 AM
5th Gear

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 926
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rear deck would rattle too much.
mrmondaynight is offline
post #7 of 19 Old 02-18-2011, 12:39 PM
Dats da way to do...

johnnydinh701's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
location: Valencia, CA
Posts: 487
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via AIM to johnnydinh701
wait how would u be able to place 6x9 in the back? wouldnt u have to make the 6.5 speaker holes bigger?
johnnydinh701 is offline
post #8 of 19 Old 02-18-2011, 04:17 PM
4th Gear

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 448
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post
Have you thought about mounting 6x9s from below in the rear deck? Aftermarket 6x9s can be installed either from below or dropped down from above. From below, you would not need a 6x9 hole in the deck. You would lose some trunk space since they will be deeper, but all you have to do is drill new holes. Unless Honda screwed up the rear deck to prevent 6x9s from being installed from below.
If the OP can make this happen it'll be his best bet. Either top mount or bottom mount (whatever fits) important thing is that where the speaker meets the deck is sealed off nicely. In the past I've gotten mirror-shaking bass from a decent set of 6x9s top-mounted in the rear deck with minimal power (under 40w each).


Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulD View Post
if you put 6 1/2" subs in the rear deck, you will to enclose them some how to get any real bass.
For small subs, probably. But in my experience rear deck speakers (ie typical 6x9 or 6.5" 2-ways) perform better when allowed to fire into the trunk. The key is making a tight seal where the speaker meets the panel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmondaynight View Post
You need 3 things
Components
a lot of power( 300+ x 2)
Deadened and sealed door
Components are no better than coaxes at providing low-end. Typically larger driver size = more moved air = better low end. A 6.5" component and 6.5" coax are both rocking the same size woofer.
And 300w is ridiculous for component or coaxial speakers.
Deadener does help, especially with front door speakers.

2010 EX Sedan 5MT (CBP)
jperryss is offline
post #9 of 19 Old 02-18-2011, 04:45 PM
5th Gear

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 926
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jperryss View Post



Components are no better than coaxes at providing low-end. Typically larger driver size = more moved air = better low end. A 6.5" component and 6.5" coax are both rocking the same size woofer.
And 300w is ridiculous for component or coaxial speakers.
Deadener does help, especially with front door speakers.
Maybe if they were created equally. Your opinion is a tad too vague.

Peep


This 6.5 has 13mm of xmax and a fs of 45hz

Find me a coax that comes close.


9 times out of 10, a component WILL have better midbass response than a coax

300w isn't a lot considering it'll have to be split between 2 and the crossover itself will eat up 15-20w

As far as real bass goes(63hz and down), a 6.5 mid or 6x9 will NEVER replace a sub. a 6.5 just won't produce the lowest octaves with authority...esp in a door or running free air in the rear deck. You'll get some ok output up until about 70hz then it'll roll off. Any lower and the doors are gonna twang like crazy and sound bad. Same goes for a flimsy rear deck. What you're referring to is called "mid bass". You want to play the lowest octaves, you need a sub. There's no way around it.
mrmondaynight is offline
post #10 of 19 Old 02-19-2011, 07:45 AM
2016 Nissan Maxima Platnm

hillstones's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,578
Thanks: 9
Thanked 77 Times in 58 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnydinh701 View Post
wait how would u be able to place 6x9 in the back? wouldnt u have to make the 6.5 speaker holes bigger?
Nope. Aftermarket 6x9s can either be top mounted (dropped into a 6x9 hole) or mounted from the bottom (if there is enough room), just by bolting to the rear deck from below. But based on the OP comment, Honda screwed the pooch as usual and didn't allow room for 6x9s, even if mounted from below.
hillstones is offline
post #11 of 19 Old 02-19-2011, 08:28 AM
4th Gear

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 448
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmondaynight View Post
Maybe if they were created equally. Your opinion is a tad too vague.
[snip]
This 6.5 has 13mm of xmax and a fs of 45hz
Find me a coax that comes close.
Quote:
9 times out of 10, a component WILL have better midbass response than a coax
Yes, that's a raw driver and yes there are dedicated woofers that will blow the doors off of any name brand coax OR component set.

Maybe next time say 'dedicated woofer' instead of 'components'?


Quote:
300w isn't a lot considering it'll have to be split between 2 and the crossover itself will eat up 15-20w
If your amp is 300w2, that is 300w per side. The woofer hanging off of that crossover will still 'potentially' see 300w, as could the tweeter, technically (but it won't and would blow way before that). The crossover just directs the frequencies to each channel.


Quote:
As far as real bass goes(63hz and down), a 6.5 mid or 6x9 will NEVER replace a sub. a 6.5 just won't produce the lowest octaves with authority...esp in a door or running free air in the rear deck. You'll get some ok output up until about 70hz then it'll roll off. Any lower and the doors are gonna twang like crazy and sound bad. Same goes for a flimsy rear deck. What you're referring to is called "mid bass". You want to play the lowest octaves, you need a sub. There's no way around it.
Yes, agreed. Bass and sub-bass are not the same thing. But many people have pulled off 'loud and low enough for their tastes' without a sub, and I think that's what the OP is looking for.

2010 EX Sedan 5MT (CBP)
jperryss is offline
post #12 of 19 Old 02-19-2011, 09:27 AM
5th Gear

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 926
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Yes, that's a raw driver and yes there are dedicated woofers that will blow the doors off of any name brand coax OR component set.

Maybe next time say 'dedicated woofer' instead of 'components'?
You knew what i meant


Quote:
If your amp is 300w2, that is 300w per side. The woofer hanging off of that crossover will still 'potentially' see 300w, as could the tweeter, technically (but it won't and would blow way before that). The crossover just directs the frequencies to each channel.
nah, the power gets split. If you have an amp that does 300 x 2, that 300 gets split between woofer, tweet, and crossover.

It'll normally break down like this

140w to each tweet
140w to each mid
10-20 to each crossover..Some crossovers eat up more..some less.

When you see an rms rating for a component set, you want to get an amp that does DOUBLE the power if u want them to perform at full potential.
mrmondaynight is offline
post #13 of 19 Old 02-19-2011, 09:21 PM
4th Gear

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 448
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmondaynight View Post
You knew what i meant
nah, the power gets split. If you have an amp that does 300 x 2, that 300 gets split between woofer, tweet, and crossover.

It'll normally break down like this

140w to each tweet
140w to each mid
10-20 to each crossover..Some crossovers eat up more..some less.

When you see an rms rating for a component set, you want to get an amp that does DOUBLE the power if u want them to perform at full potential.
Wrong. Crossovers do not divide the power between the drivers, they just divide the frequency band.



Quote:
When you have components sets with passive crossovers, the power from the amp is not split between the speakers. If you have a 70 watt amp, then each speaker is going to receive 70 watts (assuming all speakers are the same impedance). If you are sending 70 watts 4ohm to the component set, and the mid is 4ohm and the tweeter is 8ohm, then the mid will receive 70 watts but the tweeter will only receive 35 watts.

This probably isn't a very technical explanation….but it gets the point across none-the-less Let's pretend theoretically that we are running a 70 watt 4ohm amp full range. That amp (theoretically) puts out 70 watts at all frequencies at 4ohms, correct?? Now, pretend that we are running that amp to a component set (with all 4ohm speakers) through a passive crossover with a crossover point of 3500hz. So, we are taking that full range signal from the amp and splitting up the frequencies between the mid and tweet at 3500hz. Now, since we are splitting the frequencies and nothing else, there is still going to be 70 watts worth of power at all frequencies below the crossover point and at all frequencies above the crossover point, just the same as there was before we split the signal (since it was putting out 70w at all frequencies).
And you're 'double the power' statement isn't right either. Yes, some people will run significantly above RMS rating, but it's certainly not required. And would you put 1000w 'true' power through a sub rated for 500w RMS? I wouldn't.

2010 EX Sedan 5MT (CBP)
jperryss is offline
post #14 of 19 Old 02-20-2011, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 389
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Okay, so you guys are making me lean towards installing a sub now, lol. Good thing is, I already have a decent 12" sub (Alpine Type-S) and a good amount of power (Alpine 400W RMS mono) laying around the house, just have to drop them in. So here's my proposed new setup...

For the time being, I'll just use the OEM stereo to power the fronts. Then I'll remove the rear speakers, but use those wires for an MTX re-Q, with my existing sub and amp.

With this modest, simple setup, what's a good crossover frequency for the sub? 80Hz? 100Hz? 120Hz?
kalel34 is offline
post #15 of 19 Old 02-20-2011, 07:13 AM
5th Gear

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 926
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jperryss View Post
Wrong. Crossovers do not divide the power between the drivers, they just divide the frequency band.




That is called "bi-amping"

OP, amp your speakers before adding a sub.

mrmondaynight is offline
Advertisement

Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Drive Accord Honda Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
The answer to the random question may be found under the Off Topic section of the forums and in the "Drive Accord Forums" category.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

For the best viewing experience please update your browser to


Related pages


v6 superchargerhonda accord abs light onhonda irving tx2001 honda accord cabin air filterk&n high flow air filter reviewhonda repair chicagorack and pinion leak cost2014 mustang v6 speed limiterwhat does allshare cast dongle doglow guagesp205 55r16cost of honda key replacementhonda accord overheatinghow much is tire installation at walmart2012 civic si quarter milecheck vsa system acuraborla sound clipshonda civic coupe lx vs ex1995 honda accord cooling systemacura vigor rimssqueaky window wipersk24a2 tsxtransmission fluid change cost hondahonda accord rust problemshonda crv oil change indicatordryrot tiresenkei ekm3 reviewalternator or battery badengine mount solenoid valvesautocross st louisdtcfrzfwhat does it mean when check engine light blinkshonda civic chipdual exhaust installation cost91 honda accord fuel pump1994 honda accord dashboardwhat is pzevcode to reset radio in honda civichonda diagnosticshead gasket honda accordwhat is 5x100 bolt patternweapon ri throttle2000 honda accord oil filter91 honda civic battery2004 honda civic manual transmission problemssubwoofer hummingobd1 codes hondazerex asian vehicle coolant2005 accord airbag lightparrot ck3100 installationtpms light crvcar vibrates on accelerationdenso 077800 0780honda cr v bolt patternbattery for honda civic key fob9th gen accordleather seat tear repairtransmission for 1999 honda accordfram ultra oil filterhonda accord p0401obd system check failclifford 50.7xheadliner saggingdriver side door lock actuator14832 magnaflowcleaning idle air control valveinstall progressive snapshotgenservice1997 honda crv distributor350z 18 wheelsf150 block heatermichelin windshield wiper blades