EGR p0401 code, but I'm a 4 cylinder - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #1 of 25 Old 05-21-2009, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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EGR p0401 code, but I'm a 4 cylinder

I have a 2000 4 cylinder 4 door 5 speed with 185k.

I recently had a CEL. Went to autozone and it was p0401, which is EGR insufficient flow. I took the EGR valve off and it really didn't look that bad. I sprayed it with carb cleaner and brushed/scraped off any carbon I could see. I also cleaned the "holes" where the EGR valve connects to the IM. I reset the ECU only to have the light come back on a few cycles later. When I have time I will attempt to remove the top half of the IM, but it looks like alot of work, especially since the EGR valve wasn't that dirty. I just seafoamed the car about a month ago, and wasn't really impressed with the lack of dark/black smoke coming from the tail pipe.

Has anyone actually had the EGR valve go bad?

Here is a picture of my "dirty" EGR valve.




Last edited by sodaks2k; 05-25-2009 at 04:57 AM. Reason: added picture
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post #2 of 25 Old 05-23-2009, 07:11 PM
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If the valve isn't opening you'd also get a code for insufficient lift. The PCM is seeing it open, but doesn't see the required change in map readings when it opens the valve on decel.

The ports going to the cylinders after the valve are probably plugged. The port that goes from the valve to the top half of the intake is probably plugged. You're going to have to remove the upper part of the plenum to clean everything out.


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post #3 of 25 Old 05-23-2009, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply Fredsvt!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredsvt View Post
If the valve isn't opening you'd also get a code for insufficient lift. The PCM is seeing it open, but doesn't see the required change in map readings when it opens the valve on decel.
Well that's reassuring. I was hoping I wouldn't have to drop $115 on a new EGR valve.

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The port that goes from the valve to the top half of the intake is probably plugged.
I'm going to pick up some pipe/gun cleaner tomorrow night and try to get this done without removing the top half of the intake plenum.

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The ports going to the cylinders after the valve are probably plugged.
I know the 4th and 5th gens F22's had port plugs, but I didn't see anything like that on mine. Mine does NOT look like either of these.



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You're going to have to remove the upper part of the plenum to clean everything out.
This will be my last resort. THere are just a few too many parts/pieces for me and I'm afraid I won't get it back together right.
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post #4 of 25 Old 05-25-2009, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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*UPDATE*

I bit the bullet and removed the top half of the intake manifold. Not really as bad as I thought. I definitely found the culprit.







After I did some cleaning with carb cleaner and my air hose. Make sure you cover the end where things will be flying out. I got carbon build-up and carb cleaner pretty much everywhere. Does not make for an easy clean up.



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post #5 of 25 Old 05-25-2009, 05:39 PM
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Does your car use any oil?
Usually an EGR port that size won't plug completely as yours did unless you are using oil or do quite a lot of short trip driving.

When you cleaned out the lower intake's port, you did have the EGR valve off to make sure the pathway was clear from valve to upper.

The port in the upper, does it go to individual ports to each cylinder or does it dump into a common single hole for all 4?

Sapphire blue '04 V6 6 speed w/ full HFP, comptech ss, momo shadow, TL-S 27.2h/20 bars, intake spacer, retro chrome MH1 HIR2 highs, hella DE fogs, EBC Ultimax, subwoofer/amp, infinity rears, HD Radio, aux adapter, navi conversion.

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post #6 of 25 Old 05-25-2009, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredsvt View Post
Does your car use any oil?
It used to use about a quart every 3-4k, but so not much any more. Maybe because the port was clogged? I'll make sure I monitor it now that I've cleaned it.

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Usually an EGR port that size won't plug completely as yours did unless you are using oil or do quite a lot of short trip driving.
Work is only 3 miles away, and then I go to the gym after work which is about 8 miles from work. 3 weekends a month I drive 300 miles on the interstate.

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When you cleaned out the lower intake's port, you did have the EGR valve off to make sure the pathway was clear from valve to upper.
Yes, I had to take the EGR valve off to blow the build up out.

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The port in the upper, does it go to individual ports to each cylinder or does it dump into a common single hole for all 4?
Common hole for all four. The upper intake looks basically like a valve cover with no runners directing the EGR gases. I'm not an engineer, and I don't know why the lower intake is designed as it is. Seems like it is restrictive, but I'm sure there is some sort of flow design.
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post #7 of 25 Old 05-26-2009, 05:48 AM
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sodaks,

Glad it worked out. Thanks for posting the pics/description - could come in handy some day.

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post #8 of 25 Old 05-26-2009, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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sodaks,

Glad it worked out. Thanks for posting the pics/description - could come in handy some day.
That's the idea! I searched this forum, , and and found NO pics of this. People explained what needed to be done which helped a little bit, but pictures say a 1000 words.
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post #9 of 25 Old 05-30-2009, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaks2k View Post
It used to use about a quart every 3-4k, but so not much any more. Maybe because the port was clogged? I'll make sure I monitor it now that I've cleaned it.



Work is only 3 miles away, and then I go to the gym after work which is about 8 miles from work. 3 weekends a month I drive 300 miles on the interstate.

Jeez, for 3 miles I'd be riding my bike to work. Same for the 8 miles. If I didn't have to contend with tandem axle dump trucks I'd ride the 22 miles to work every day. I'd rather not be road pizza. It's as harsh as driving can get. The poor car very rarely gets up to operating temp, especially the oil.

Yes, I had to take the EGR valve off to blow the build up out.



Common hole for all four. The upper intake looks basically like a valve cover with no runners directing the EGR gases. I'm not an engineer, and I don't know why the lower intake is designed as it is. Seems like it is restrictive, but I'm sure there is some sort of flow design.
That is nice to know. I've yet to have a 2.3 have EGR issues. I think they make the path that way so it's cheaper to make, no external pipe, just cast in with the rest of the intake.

Sapphire blue '04 V6 6 speed w/ full HFP, comptech ss, momo shadow, TL-S 27.2h/20 bars, intake spacer, retro chrome MH1 HIR2 highs, hella DE fogs, EBC Ultimax, subwoofer/amp, infinity rears, HD Radio, aux adapter, navi conversion.

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post #10 of 25 Old 05-30-2009, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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Jeez, for 3 miles I'd be riding my bike to work. Same for the 8 miles. If I didn't have to contend with tandem axle dump trucks I'd ride the 22 miles to work every day. I'd rather not be road pizza. It's as harsh as driving can get. The poor car very rarely gets up to operating temp, especially the oil.
I have to be very defensive with the idiots on the roads here. I'd be afraid for my life if I rode my bike to work. When my wife and I go for bike rides/walks/runs we cross the road I take to work and damn near get hit EVERY time by people that aren't paying attention and don't see that their light is red. And I wouldn't feel safe leaving my bike outside at work and I can't bring it inside.

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I think they make the path that way so it's cheaper to make, no external pipe, just cast in with the rest of the intake.
I meant to say I don't know why they make the UPPER intake manifold the way they do.
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post #11 of 25 Old 05-30-2009, 04:54 PM
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That design of the upper is very similar to many cars out there, the recirculated exhaust gas is just dumped into the upper and mixed as the air is pulled into the cylinders.
The gen 6 V6 is like this.

The gen 7 V6 is not, it has a multitude of small passages that also go through the upper plate gasket. They're not hard to clean, but I can see them clogging.

I agree about idiots out there when I'm on a bike. I've gotten used to it and swear at a lot of people. Being in an area that has many former NYC drivers makes it scary sometimes. I think they just don't believe in stop signs, 20-30mph drive through of stop signs is common. I've seen so many just honk their horn from about 500' from red lights and drive through..

Sapphire blue '04 V6 6 speed w/ full HFP, comptech ss, momo shadow, TL-S 27.2h/20 bars, intake spacer, retro chrome MH1 HIR2 highs, hella DE fogs, EBC Ultimax, subwoofer/amp, infinity rears, HD Radio, aux adapter, navi conversion.

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Quote:
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That design of the upper is very similar to many cars out there, the recirculated exhaust gas is just dumped into the upper and mixed as the air is pulled into the cylinders.
More specifically, I meant all of the "wasted" space in the design in the upper IM. In theory I would think a straight through design would be better (air going directly into the lower IM from the upper IM via runners) instead of the "hemishphere" of space in the upper IM. There are no runners of any sort in the upper IM. But, what do I know? I'm in the medical field, not engine design.

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I agree about idiots out there when I'm on a bike. I've gotten used to it and swear at a lot of people. Being in an area that has many former NYC drivers makes it scary sometimes. I think they just don't believe in stop signs, 20-30mph drive through of stop signs is common. I've seen so many just honk their horn from about 500' from red lights and drive through
As I have known for years, people are idiots everywhere. There are a handful that know what they're doing when behind the wheel, but in general people are too occupied with other things to pay attention to what's going on. It drives me nuts when my wife tries to have a serious chat with me when we're stuck in traffic, or just going anywhere for that matter. I want/need to concentrate on the road and I can't do that when she's trying to get answers from me.
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post #13 of 25 Old 05-31-2009, 10:25 AM
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The plenum space, or empty space at the top serves several functions, one it adds volume to the intake system, which in the case of that engine will enhance low end torque somewhat. It also serves to quiet the intake as well. The extra space also allows for the mixing of the egr, and allows all the necessary things that need vacuum to hook to the common area rather than just 1 cylinder.

If it had straight runners from the throttle body it would be gutless down low. Toyota 1ZZ and 2ZZ engines with the aluminum "header" intake are examples of this, they just have no discernible torque whatsoever. And they're unbelievably loud.

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post #14 of 25 Old 05-31-2009, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
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I knew there had to be something to it.
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post #15 of 25 Old 05-14-2011, 12:09 PM
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Hello Everyone,

I have a 1999 Honda Accord 4 cyl. ULEV and I had the P0401 code appear also. I removed the EGR valve and cleaned it with carb/throttle body cleaner. Since our cars don't have easily accessible EGR ports, I too had to remove the intake plenum and thoroughly clean out the one EGR port leading from the EGR valve to the intake plenum chamber. That's it! No more P0401 insufficient flow detected trouble code. Car is running great and it didn't take too long to service it. Unfortunately, you have to remove the intake plenum and all the hoses and sensors/connectors attached to it.

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