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post #31 of 44 Old 02-15-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Baldeagle View Post
Here are the KBB trade-in values for a Honda Accord EX I4 auto in very good condition for each year. Mileage increases by 12,000 annually.

Year..... Mileage....... Value..... Change in Value
2011...... 12000...... $ 18,430
2010...... 24000...... $ 16,297...... 12%
2009...... 36000...... $ 14,463...... 11%
2008...... 48000...... $ 13,695...... 5%
2007...... 60000...... $ 11,219..... 18%
2006...... 72000...... $ 10,503...... 6%
2005...... 84000...... $ 8,595....... 18%
2004...... 96000...... $ 7,456....... 13%
2003...... 108000.... $ 6,363....... 15%
2002...... 120000.... $ 4,605....... 28%

The rate of depreciation actually INCREASED slightly as it got older. It is also very odd that the depreciation rate for each year can vary so much. For example the change in value from a 2009 Accord to a 2008 Accord is only 5%. But as expected because of the model change, the change in value from a 2008 to a 2007 is 18%. But then it was only 6% for the next year.

Out of curiosity, I did the same thing for an Audi A4 2.0T Quattro auto. This car’s annual depreciation rate was a little more consistent. But guess what? The Audi depreciates faster than the Honda.

Year..... Mileage....... Value..... Change in Value
2011...... 12000...... $ 32,245
2010...... 24000...... $ 26,425...... 18%
2009...... 36000...... $ 20,630...... 22%
2008...... 48000...... $ 17,113...... 17%
2007...... 60000...... $ 14,036...... 18%
2006...... 72000...... $ 11,838...... 16%
2005...... 84000...... $ 8,042........ 32%
2004...... 96000...... $ 6,443 ....... 20%


But the big observation is that a used car depreciates at the same rate as a new/newer car, perhaps more.
What are these percentages based on? Year by year drop or percentage of original purchase price?

Unless I'm missing something if the original purchase price of each model year is not taken into account then these figures mean nothing. Am I missing something?

I guess I'm also asking if original purchase price is taken into account. For example, is the 6443 for the 2004 Audi 20% of the original purchase price of a 2004 Audi?


I'm not disputing that this Audi has greater depreciatgion than the Honda, I'm just trying to get my head around what these numbers mean.


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post #32 of 44 Old 02-15-2012, 01:40 PM
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you are right markus, and these are just year by year changes ex 2009 vs 2010. the results would be as the original poster of that chart expected if the change was compared to original purchase price. ex a 2k change vs the original price would be a decreased percentage but when you show year by year it doesn't.

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post #33 of 44 Old 02-15-2012, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Markus View Post
What are these percentages based on? Year by year drop or percentage of original purchase price?

Unless I'm missing something if the original purchase price of each model year is not taken into account then these figures mean nothing. Am I missing something?

I guess I'm also asking if original purchase price is taken into account. For example, is the 6443 for the 2004 Audi 20% of the original purchase price of a 2004 Audi?


I'm not disputing that this Audi has greater depreciatgion than the Honda, I'm just trying to get my head around what these numbers mean.
I’m sorry. I wasn’t clear. The percentage shows the difference in value from the previous model year’s current value. For example, according to KBB, right now a 2010 Accord with 24,000 miles is worth $16,297 and a 2009 Accord with 36,000 miles is worth $14,463. That difference is $1,834 or 11%. I used that as the basis for an annual depreciation. My thought was that next year a 2010 Accord with 36,000 mile should have essentially the same value as the 2009 Accord with 36,000 does this year.

And now that it put that thought in print, I can see how it is confusing. I guess my assumption was that in one year’s time, each car’s future value will be the same as a “one-year-older” model is today. (As I write this, I’m really beginning to question if my premise is sound.) But still, I think this information can be used to at least crudely show how much a car depreciates during its lifetime from year to year. In dollar terms, it loses less each year. But in percentage terms, it loses the same each year.

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post #34 of 44 Old 02-15-2012, 02:05 PM
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I realize now that chart is very confusing. Sorry. But here is ultimately how I thought this information might be used. Suppose you had $28,000 to buy a car and depreciation was a big deal to you. Let’s also assume you have a choice of two cars, a brand new V6 Accord EXL or a 5 year old Lexus GS430 with 60,000 miles. You can buy either for $28,000. Which one would depreciate less?

At first I thought the Lexus would depreciate less because it is five years old and has already lost 50+% of its value. But based on what I thought my numbers above tell me, it seems they will depreciate the same amount, roughly 15% per year. So next year, both cars would be worth about $23,800. The fact that the Lexus is five years old doesn’t mean its rate of depreciation will decrease.

Anyway, that was my thought. Flame away!

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post #35 of 44 Old 02-15-2012, 03:01 PM
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MSRP's are different for every model year.


here is a real world example

2010 Civic Si purchased September 2010 - $20,500 + Tax(8.75%)- MSRP was $23,ish.00 I don't remember

2010 Si total on 1-9-12 with 11k miles- Insurance pay off was $23k, that was the average of 5 similar vehicles for sale within 30 miles of my zipcode.

So it didn't depreciate ANY in this 1 real world example (mine, hence why I have an Accord now).

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post #36 of 44 Old 02-15-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strate l o s s View Post
MSRP's are different for every model year.


here is a real world example

2010 Civic Si purchased September 2010 - $20,500 + Tax(8.75%)- MSRP was $23,ish.00 I don't remember

2010 Si total on 1-9-12 with 11k miles- Insurance pay off was $23k, that was the average of 5 similar vehicles for sale within 30 miles of my zipcode.

So it didn't depreciate ANY in this 1 real world example (mine, hence why I have an Accord now).
I don't think you can relate an insurance payout with what you'd actually get for the car if you actually sold it. In your case you got a great deal on the car and the insurance company paid you more than you paid. How many people do you know who can sell their used car for more money that they paid for it? (Don't include speciality cars or collector cars, just think of normal daily drivers). The example you gave is not a real world example of true depreciation.

If my Accord is written off today my insurance company replaces it with an identical brand-new 2012. According to your definition of depreciation my 2008 won't have depreciated at all, and we all know I could never sell my 2008 for the cost of a similarly-equipped brand-new 2012.

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post #37 of 44 Old 02-15-2012, 03:40 PM
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I don't understand how the agreement you have with them to replace yours with a new vehicle reflects a cash payout ?

Higher mileage cars (Civic Si) were selling for more then mine.

So if that is what they were selling for on a lot it is very feasible to sell it privately for a similar price.


I didn't have that neat agreement with Geico where they do new car replacement.. It was just deemed totaled, they appraised it, and paid out.

And it is very real world, as it just happened to me. It may not be the typical outcome but it was 100% real.

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post #38 of 44 Old 02-15-2012, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strate l o s s View Post
I don't understand how the agreement you have with them to replace yours with a new vehicle reflects a cash payout ?

Higher mileage cars (Civic Si) were selling for more then mine.

So if that is what they were selling for on a lot it is very feasible to sell it privately for a similar price.


I didn't have that neat agreement with Geico where they do new car replacement.. It was just deemed totaled, they appraised it, and paid out.

And it is very real world, as it just happened to me. It may not be the typical outcome but it was 100% real.
I'm not saying it didn't happen to to you.

It certainly is not an example of real world depreciation, unless you consider it normal for a Honda to appreciate. It's an example of you getting lucky with your insurance company in conjunction with you getting a good deal on the car to begin with.

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post #39 of 44 Old 02-15-2012, 03:53 PM
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ok, this is a trade-in on the car as of right now.


msrp was $23,005

$3,064 depreciation based off of a trade-in amount, not me actually selling it.

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post #40 of 44 Old 02-15-2012, 03:59 PM
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here is private party sale, still less then a dealers price.



$23,005-$21,196=$1,809 depreciation over 16 months and 11k miles.

how much % is that ?

to add to the trade in amount 1 post above this, that doesn't include an 8.75% tax savings advantage.. so depreciation per se is even less then the $3k

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post #41 of 44 Old 02-15-2012, 04:24 PM
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yes, i did look at the local market (i am in pittsburgh). the closet one for sale is 170 miles away. private sale is an option, but what a hassle.
So based on your research how much is your car worth? W/e number you get, that's what you should expect your car to go for. With dealerships maybe closer to it but if its way off then don't do it. The dealership offered me $13k -14k but since I did my research I said No thank you!!! my car was easily going for $16-17 privately and also what the other dealerships were selling them for.

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post #42 of 44 Old 02-16-2012, 10:43 AM
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My Trade In Experience - FWIW

I attempted to trade in the following vehicle --

2010 Full HFP Honda Accord Coupe EX-L V6 6MT w/ Navi
5K Miles
No Rain
Extended Warranty
Flawless

I was offered $23K plus the applicable tax credit of $2K OR total trade in value of $25K - This weighed against an E92 M3 with 7K miles priced $5K below Nada Retail.

Workable but hesitant given what I paid for the Honda so I may let it go privately.


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post #43 of 44 Old 02-16-2012, 12:35 PM
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The HFP adds approximately $0 to trade in value, but costs thousands.

Private sale would be the only place you'd be able to maybe get HFP money back.

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post #44 of 44 Old 02-16-2012, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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So based on your research how much is your car worth? W/e number you get, that's what you should expect your car to go for. ...
since the closet one was 170 miles away, i didn't even notice the price. didn't seem applicable. i'm keeping my honda. great car, hasn't been to the shop once. easy on REGULAR gas and takes REGULAR oil (low cost of ownership).
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