Car won't start - conclusion: timing chain jumped - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #1 of 32 Old 12-23-2017, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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Car won't start - conclusion: timing chain jumped

Hello forum. First time poster.

My son drives a 2008 Accord EX-L 4cyl. The other day he got his oil changed, and then next morning it started running rough. It doesn't seem to want to go over 3,000 RPM's and is sluggish. We took it back to Valvoline to see if they did something to cause the issue. They ran a diagnostic and said it was throwing a code for the Camshaft Position Sensor.

I purchased a Denso sensor and replaced it this morning. Car started right up, ran for about 5 seconds, then it died. Now it won't start at all. I put the old part back in, and I still can't get it to start. Won't even fire.

I know nothing about these cars, so I'm coming here in hopes someone can recommend a few things to try before I take it to a shop.

Appreciate it!

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post #2 of 32 Old 12-23-2017, 10:57 AM
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Do you have a check engine light (CEL) on ?

Did Valvoline give you the code number they found?

Check the oil level in the engine. Where is it?

When it was running, did you hear any unusual noises?

I am not 100% sure of this but if the cam position threw a code the ECU may not allow you to start the car until it is cleared. A bad sensor won't let you start engine either.

When you brought the car back to Valvoline, and still running, did they add oil to the engine?

Here's why. If Valvoline did NOT fill oil to proper level (too low the first time) the timing chain MAY have jumped and causing the non-start rather than a bad cam sensor sensor.


Mike

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post #3 of 32 Old 12-23-2017, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miker View Post
Do you have a check engine light (CEL) on ?

Did Valvoline give you the code number they found?

Check the oil level in the engine. Where is it?

When it was running, did you hear any unusual noises?

I am not 100% sure of this but if the cam position threw a code the ECU may not allow you to start the car until it is cleared. A bad sensor won't let you start engine either.

When you brought the car back to Valvoline, and still running, did they add oil to the engine?

Here's why. If Valvoline did NOT fill oil to proper level (too low the first time) the timing chain MAY have jumped and causing the non-start rather than a bad cam sensor sensor.

I did not get the code from Valvoline, but they did check the oil level when we brought it back and they said it was fine. I wouldnít say there were unusual noises, but my son said it seemed a little louder than normal.

I was having trouble getting my OBD2 WiFi device to connect, so I couldnít clear the codes. As for a check engine light, all I saw was a yellow wrench.
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post #4 of 32 Old 12-23-2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mergedown View Post
I did not get the code from Valvoline, but they did check the oil level when we brought it back and they said it was fine. I wouldnít say there were unusual noises, but my son said it seemed a little louder than normal.

I was having trouble getting my OBD2 WiFi device to connect, so I couldnít clear the codes. As for a check engine light, all I saw was a yellow wrench.
Louder could mean low oil.

We need that code though.

Mike

2013 EX-L V6/6A (no nav) sedan CBP
"vita est brevis, vado pro V6" - Me
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"Either write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."- Benjamin Franklin
"Never walk past a mistake " - Colin Powell, retired four-star General
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post #5 of 32 Old 12-23-2017, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mergedown View Post
Hello forum. First time poster.

My son drives a 2008 Accord EX-L 4cyl. The other day he got his oil changed, and then next morning it started running rough. It doesn't seem to want to go over 3,000 RPM's and is sluggish. We took it back to Valvoline to see if they did something to cause the issue. They ran a diagnostic and said it was throwing a code for the Camshaft Position Sensor.

I purchased a Denso sensor and replaced it this morning. Car started right up, ran for about 5 seconds, then it died. Now it won't start at all. I put the old part back in, and I still can't get it to start. Won't even fire.

I know nothing about these cars, so I'm coming here in hopes someone can recommend a few things to try before I take it to a shop.

Appreciate it!
Sorry to say, but Valvoline did something to his car and they're not being upfront about it. That's really too bad, and hope you find out what's wrong and how to fix it.

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post #6 of 32 Old 12-24-2017, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Louder could mean low oil.

We need that code though.
So I got my hands on a Code Reader, and all I get is a LINK ERROR. I also tried to connect with a Wifi enabled scanner to my iPhone, also won't connect. I connected them both to my Jeep and each device reads just fine, so the devices work.

So, no code :-(

Looks like it's going to the shop on Tuesday.
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post #7 of 32 Old 12-25-2017, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mergedown View Post
So I got my hands on a Code Reader, and all I get is a LINK ERROR. I also tried to connect with a Wifi enabled scanner to my iPhone, also won't connect. I connected them both to my Jeep and each device reads just fine, so the devices work.

So, no code :-(

Looks like it's going to the shop on Tuesday.
If you want to try one more thing, disconnect the sensor plug you replaced. If the sensor (or any sensor for that matter) is shorted to ground the no link will occur on the OBD reader.

Try to reconnect the OBD with the sensor unplugged.

What happens?

Mike

2013 EX-L V6/6A (no nav) sedan CBP
"vita est brevis, vado pro V6" - Me
"Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence." - Anonymous
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post #8 of 32 Old 12-27-2017, 05:39 AM
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This might be a dumb question but did you check the oil after they did the oil change? And check the positive/negative battery cables...


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post #9 of 32 Old 12-28-2017, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mergedown View Post
So I got my hands on a Code Reader, and all I get is a LINK ERROR. I also tried to connect with a Wifi enabled scanner to my iPhone, also won't connect. I connected them both to my Jeep and each device reads just fine, so the devices work.

So, no code :-(

Looks like it's going to the shop on Tuesday.
Any updates? I'm curious as to how an oil change caused your son's car to stop working.
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post #10 of 32 Old 12-29-2017, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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Got a call today from the shop. Said that the timing chain jumped a few teeth. So, that’s getting fixed.
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post #11 of 32 Old 12-29-2017, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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This might be a dumb question but did you check the oil after they did the oil change? And check the positive/negative battery cables...
Yes, oil level was fine and the battery was connected.
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post #12 of 32 Old 12-29-2017, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mergedown View Post
So I got my hands on a Code Reader, and all I get is a LINK ERROR. I also tried to connect with a Wifi enabled scanner to my iPhone, also won't connect. I connected them both to my Jeep and each device reads just fine, so the devices work.

So, no code :-(

Looks like it's going to the shop on Tuesday.
Sorry, didnít see this in time, so I didnít get a chance to try it.
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post #13 of 32 Old 12-29-2017, 07:11 PM
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It is not a casual finding to have timing chain to skip teeth by mistake.
Unless you fix the underlying cause this will happen again and will kill you car's engine for good.

Possible causes:
1- Timing chain is stretched and needs to be Replaced and
2- Faulty chain tensioner and needs to be changed and
3- While in there check and replace VTC actuator on the intake cam as well.(if the rattling noise is heard at start ups)
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post #14 of 32 Old 12-29-2017, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mergedown View Post
Got a call today from the shop. Said that the timing chain jumped a few teeth. So, that’s getting fixed.
I'm going to guess the oil level WAS low and this is what caused the chain to jump.

There's no way to prove the oil shop put less oil to cause this but ........

That's probably what caused the engine to be louder until the chain jumped.

Glad to hear you are getting it fixed. Since it jumped a tooth or two that's what saved your engine. Since you couldn't start the engine caused by the jumped teeth, it kept the engine from destroying itself.

Whew!!!

That camshaft code was probably a false code and the sensor was probably OK. Since the cam was now out of time because of the jumped chain, it threw that code

I agree with Rattmann you need to know what caused the chain to jump. The low oil could have stretched the chain too

When the engine was still running, you'd think there would have been P0301-0304 or p0300 multiple misfires if timing was off!
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Mike

2013 EX-L V6/6A (no nav) sedan CBP
"vita est brevis, vado pro V6" - Me
"Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence." - Anonymous
"Either write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."- Benjamin Franklin
"Never walk past a mistake " - Colin Powell, retired four-star General
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post #15 of 32 Old 12-30-2017, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Miker View Post
I'm going to guess the oil level WAS low and this is what caused the chain to jump.

There's no way to prove the oil shop put less oil to cause this but ........

That's probably what caused the engine to be louder until the chain jumped.

Glad to hear you are getting it fixed. Since it jumped a tooth or two that's what saved your engine. Since you couldn't start the engine caused by the jumped teeth, it kept the engine from destroying itself.

Whew!!!

That camshaft code was probably a false code and the sensor was probably OK. Since the cam was now out of time because of the jumped chain, it threw that code

I agree with Rattmann you need to know what caused the chain to jump. The low oil could have stretched the chain too

When the engine was still running, you'd think there would have been P0301-0304 or p0300 multiple misfires if timing was off!
Iím having the chain and tensioner replaced. Iím actually concerned that my son was running the car low on oil. Heís recently started working at a local delaership as a ďrunnerĒ and has surrounded himself with car people which has caused him to start to show interest in cars, so Iím hoping his surroundings rub off on him and heíll understand the importance of maintenance. My son claimed the car was misfiring, but I didnít drive it. I had him park it at my house the moment it started running poorly. I just moved it into the driveway and swapped the sensor, and then it wouldnít start.

Fortunately, Iím able to return the $100 sensor I bought. Hoping the car is completed today.

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