Car won't start - conclusion: timing chain jumped - Page 2 - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #16 of 32 Old 12-30-2017, 06:22 AM
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Consistently low oil, consistently dirty oil, or a one time "no oil".

Maybe I missed this but how many miles are on this engine?

Jiffy Lube (and same) deserves some praise- they have put the 3,000 mile oil change interval into everyone's head. How many engines have they saved because they changed/replenished with oil before too much damage was done?

I've read this a lot on the 6th and 7th Gen sub-forums. Parents hand-off their slight oil-burning cars to the kids, the kids don't check their oil level (they think the oil light on the dash is like a "low-battery warning" on an iPhone- just re-charge it), and in due time, the timing chain jumps a tooth and the car runs rough or not at all.

Hopefully, no engine internals mashed into one another causing expensive damage. These are "interference" engines.

I still check my oil level once a week. Never burned a drop until around 120,000 miles- then I noticed I was burning 1/2 a quart every 2,500 miles. Did the "piston soak" procedure and ran Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase- two oil changes later I am back to 100% level on the dipstick....but I am only at 2,500 miles on this oil thus far so I can't declare victory just yet....

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145k miles (as of Jan '18)
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post #17 of 32 Old 12-31-2017, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBlaine View Post
Consistently low oil, consistently dirty oil, or a one time "no oil".

Maybe I missed this but how many miles are on this engine?

Jiffy Lube (and same) deserves some praise- they have put the 3,000 mile oil change interval into everyone's head. How many engines have they saved because they changed/replenished with oil before too much damage was done?

I've read this a lot on the 6th and 7th Gen sub-forums. Parents hand-off their slight oil-burning cars to the kids, the kids don't check their oil level (they think the oil light on the dash is like a "low-battery warning" on an iPhone- just re-charge it), and in due time, the timing chain jumps a tooth and the car runs rough or not at all.

Hopefully, no engine internals mashed into one another causing expensive damage. These are "interference" engines.

I still check my oil level once a week. Never burned a drop until around 120,000 miles- then I noticed I was burning 1/2 a quart every 2,500 miles. Did the "piston soak" procedure and ran Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase- two oil changes later I am back to 100% level on the dipstick....but I am only at 2,500 miles on this oil thus far so I can't declare victory just yet....
Yea, I believe he has the run the car low on many occasions. Unfortunately I didnít get the car back yesterday, and Iím not sure when itíll be done at this point.

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post #18 of 32 Old 12-31-2017, 08:22 AM
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Sorry to say, but Valvoline did something to his car and they're not being upfront about it. That's really too bad, and hope you find out what's wrong and how to fix it.
Now that the cause is known, would you care to revise your unwarranted comment?

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post #19 of 32 Old 01-03-2018, 01:57 PM
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Now that the cause is known, would you care to revise your unwarranted comment?
No, and why are you quoting me? Let the OP give us updates on the status of his son's vehicle.

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post #20 of 32 Old 01-03-2018, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Well, got the car back today. While the chain slipped and needed to be replaced, it seems to have an intermittent electrical issue. Sometimes it won’t fire, but turns over. Other times it starts right up. Shop said that it could be the ignition switch because it acts like it doesn’t recognize the key, but also said that he found moving the shift lever around usually kicked something back in and it would start. He tried to diagnose, but it seems to have gone away for now and is starting consistently, so he is a bit stumped.

I’m going to drive it for the next couple days and see what happens before giving it back to my son.
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post #21 of 32 Old 01-03-2018, 04:24 PM
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Well, got the car back today. While the chain slipped and needed to be replaced, it seems to have an intermittent electrical issue. Sometimes it wonít fire, but turns over. Other times it starts right up. Shop said that it could be the ignition switch because it acts like it doesnít recognize the key, but also said that he found moving the shift lever around usually kicked something back in and it would start. He tried to diagnose, but it seems to have gone away for now and is starting consistently, so he is a bit stumped.

Iím going to drive it for the next couple days and see what happens before giving it back to my son.
{bolded}

Neutral safety switch.

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post #22 of 32 Old 01-03-2018, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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{bolded}

Neutral safety switch.
But would the car still turn over?

Also, just noticed that the speedo stopped working as well.
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post #23 of 32 Old 01-03-2018, 04:37 PM
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But would the car still turn over?

Also, just noticed that the speedo stopped working as well.
When the mechanic told you that wiggling the shifter caused something to kick in, that is the classical method for getting the "ready to fail" neutral safety switch to temporarily work.

If it fails, you won't be able to start the engine in Park or Neutral position.

Gotta get it fixed !

Under the hood on the trans shift linkage. Check it first to see if it is just loose. I believe there are elongated holes that allows for a little adjustment.

Guys with the 2.4 can tell you better it's location.

Mike

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post #24 of 32 Old 01-03-2018, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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When the mechanic told you that wiggling the shifter caused something to kick in, that is the classical method for getting the "ready to fail" neutral safety switch to temporarily work.

If it fails, you won't be able to start the engine in Park or Neutral position.

Gotta get it fixed !

Under the hood on the trans shift linkage. Check it first to see if it is just loose. I believe there are elongated holes that allows for a little adjustment.

Guys with the 2.4 can tell you better it's location.
Thanks, Iíll take a look. In my experience though, most safety switches prevent the car from turning over at all, since that is what would cause the car to lurch. In this case, it turns over just fine, it just wonít start, or even fire. Iím also finding it odd that the speedometer has stopped working. It was working fine before.
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post #25 of 32 Old 01-03-2018, 07:46 PM
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But would the car still turn over?

Also, just noticed that the speedo stopped working as well.
Definately an electrical issue. I had a new CD player installed on another car, and the speedo stopped working. I took it back, and apparently there were some wires crossing. They re-installed the CD player and the speedo worked again. Sorry to hear you have found one issue after another. I know how that is.

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post #26 of 32 Old 01-04-2018, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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Wanted to post the latest, but I felt like a recap of events was necessary.

It all started with what seemed like a basic oil change done at Valvoline, as usual. The next morning, he started his car and it was running low on power and “misfiring” (his words). I met him back at Valvoline for them to take a look since they were the last to touch it and they ran a diagnostic which reported back a bad Camshaft Position Sensor. As he was leaving Valvoline, the battery died. They jumped him so he could go on his way. I had him park it at my house rather than drive it around. Next day, it wouldn’t start because the battery was dead, again. I jumped it and took it around the block to experience what he was experiencing, and it definitely lacked power. The RPMs also “bounced”at 3,000 as if it was limited. I ordered a new OEM sensor, and as I went to remove what I thought was the sensor, I realized I was taking off the wrong part. It was a sensor located under the battery on the front of the motor, or maybe the transmission. After I had it unbolted, I realized it was wrong because the connector was different, so I put the bolt back in and plugged it back on. I finally found the correct sensor and replaced it. The car started right up so I started to back out of my driveway to take it on a test drive. I didn’t get 2 feet before the car just died. At that point, it would turn over, but wasn’t firing at all. I decided to put the original sensor back in, and it acted the same, turned over but not fire. I’m the mean time, I put a new battery in it and had it towed to the shop I purchased it from.

After the shop diagnosed the car, it was determined that the timing belt skipped a few teeth causing it to run poorly. I approved the installation of a new timing chain (car has 142,000 miles, 4cyl). Once completed, the starting issue returned, but was intermittent. Mechanic could replicate it, and it was random. He initially thought it might be the ignition switch because the car was not recognizing the key (no green key light), but it would randomly start. He also noticed that if he messed with the shifter, it would start. A Honda forum suggested it was the neutral safety switch, but I would assume that would prevent the car from over completely.

As I drove the car home tonight, I noticed that the speedometer wasn’t working, and then check engine light came on, and the car seemed to limit me at 4k RPM. I called the mechanic and he seems to think it’s related to whatever electrical issue is causing the car to intermittently start. I’m going to drive to for the next couple of days to see if I notice any issues, but it all seems a strange, and my mechanic is booked for the next couple of weeks, so I just took the car back for now.

I write all of this in hopes that there is some one out there that can potentially help direct me before I sink anymore money into the car.
Thanks!
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post #27 of 32 Old 01-04-2018, 08:46 AM
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Take it to a dealer for a proper diagnosis.

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post #28 of 32 Old 01-04-2018, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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Take it to a dealer for a proper diagnosis.
Thanks, thatís what I will do eventually. Ideally, Iíd rather try not to dump a bunch more money into this car if I donít have to, so Iím willing to do some debugging of my own. I spent enough on the timing chain.
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post #29 of 32 Old 01-04-2018, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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I can only get my OBDII reader to work when the car is running, but it only gave me one code, which is P0720-Output Speed sensor. I guess this would explain the speedo not working, but not sure if it’s connected to anything else.
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post #30 of 32 Old 01-04-2018, 06:23 PM
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I can only get my OBDII reader to work when the car is running, but it only facebook me one code, which is P0720-Output Speed sensor. I guess this would explain the speedo not working, but not sure if it’s connected to anything else.
It looks at the output shaft from the trans.

Issues may include engine stalling, misfiring and hesitation when accelerating.

How is the level of the transmission fluid ? Dirty ?

this might help

Looks like it is on the outside of the trans case so no need to dig into the trans. Whew!

Looked it up for myself since never came across this code or sensors purpose.

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"vita est brevis, vado pro V6" - Me
"Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence." - Anonymous
"Either write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."- Benjamin Franklin
"Never walk past a mistake " - Colin Powell, retired four-star General
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