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post #16 of 112 Old 03-20-2010, 02:46 PM
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Something to keep in mind is that sound deadener will do VERY LITTLE to reduce road noise. You need to use a closed-cell foam barrier that will not hold moisture and develop mold or other nasty stuff. The best bet is to run a layer (or two) of deadener and then a layer of foam over that.

I've used Raammat BXT (recommended on Don's SDS page) as well as the Ensolite foam that they also sell, with fantastic results.

EDIT: Sorry, you knew this already. Reading > Me, LOL.


2010 EX Sedan 5MT (CBP)
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post #17 of 112 Old 03-20-2010, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jperryss View Post
Something to keep in mind is that sound deadener will do VERY LITTLE to reduce road noise. You need to use a closed-cell foam barrier that will not hold moisture and develop mold or other nasty stuff. The best bet is to run a layer (or two) of deadener and then a layer of foam over that.

I've used Raammat BXT (recommended on Don's SDS page) as well as the Ensolite foam that they also sell, with fantastic results.

EDIT: Sorry, you knew this already. Reading > Me, LOL.
lol its all good.. but i'm glad you got good results.. gives me something to look forward to.

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post #18 of 112 Old 03-20-2010, 02:59 PM
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It was in my last car. I only did:
Both doors: one layer of mat/one layer of ensolite on the inner door skin, and one layer of mat/one layer of ensolite on the door panel itself.
Trunk lid: one layer of mat, one layer of ensolite

I imagine pretty dramatic results if you also did the same treatment under the floor and headliner.

2010 EX Sedan 5MT (CBP)
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post #19 of 112 Old 03-20-2010, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jperryss View Post
It was in my last car. I only did:
Both doors: one layer of mat/one layer of ensolite on the inner door skin, and one layer of mat/one layer of ensolite on the door panel itself.
Trunk lid: one layer of mat, one layer of ensolite

I imagine pretty dramatic results if you also did the same treatment under the floor and headliner.
glad to hear it. so long as don doesn't come back to me saying the materials are all going to equal a grand lol I plan to go pretty extreme.
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post #20 of 112 Old 03-20-2010, 03:41 PM
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I'd like to add that that it's been several years since I've checked out Don's SDS page. Back then, he wasn't selling a product, just had some THOROUGH evaluations of many of the popular sound deadeners of the time.

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post #21 of 112 Old 03-22-2010, 07:49 AM
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I did this to my 2009 4 cyl. ex coupe using SDS (Don Sandbourn). I took pictures and sent them to him. I used dynamat extreme dampening (only because I had it already). I put it on surfaces I could get to easily and just did a quick fill to any major area. As you know it's only for dampening NOT noise. I then used Don's system of foam and mass loaded vinyl. Floors, doors rear side panels.

I did steps and measured dB along the way. You will find out that Honda has been where you are going. I used a I Phone ap. Called SPL Meter,, weighting on position c and response on Slow.

I am not complete but I didn't get any improvement over the noisey road surfaces.
started at 78 - 81 dB and am now at 78-80 dB.


I did get a couple of dBs improvement over smooth surfaces. 74-76 db down to 72-74 dB.

If I were to do it again, Id start with the huge openings over both kick panels. This is where the wire harness's go thru to the wheel well. If you have a v6 you already have a small panel above your knee's. that helps noise. I found these opening after I covered the kick panels.

I have completely cocooned the interior except under the dash (did floor as high as possible)

My next step is the wireharness openings and the trunk floor. I have completely covered trunk wheel wells and rear quarter panels.

I isolated from the trunk by slipping vinyl into the back seats back. You'll see what I mean when you take your seat out.

When you talk to Don at SDS Sound deadner Showdown tell him Don from Dallas said HI.

Forgot to mention I changed tires to Michelin Pilot AS Sport 245/45 17. Michelin gave me these under warrenty after I complained about road noise,,great customer service but didn't help noise any,,
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post #22 of 112 Old 03-22-2010, 08:06 AM
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Cool post... I'm personally very impressed by the Second Skin Audio products, so as soon as I get the time I'm going to be using a lot of damplifyer pro (for vibrations), luxery liner (for noise), and tiles to quiet her down... Need to get on it!


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post #23 of 112 Old 03-22-2010, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fender4 View Post
I did this to my 2009 4 cyl. ex coupe using SDS (Don Sandbourn). I took pictures and sent them to him. I used dynamat extreme dampening (only because I had it already). I put it on surfaces I could get to easily and just did a quick fill to any major area. As you know it's only for dampening NOT noise. I then used Don's system of foam and mass loaded vinyl. Floors, doors rear side panels.

I did steps and measured dB along the way. You will find out that Honda has been where you are going. I used a I Phone ap. Called SPL Meter,, weighting on position c and response on Slow.

I am not complete but I didn't get any improvement over the noisey road surfaces.
started at 78 - 81 dB and am now at 78-80 dB.


I did get a couple of dBs improvement over smooth surfaces. 74-76 db down to 72-74 dB.

If I were to do it again, Id start with the huge openings over both kick panels. This is where the wire harness's go thru to the wheel well. If you have a v6 you already have a small panel above your knee's. that helps noise. I found these opening after I covered the kick panels.

I have completely cocooned the interior except under the dash (did floor as high as possible)

My next step is the wireharness openings and the trunk floor. I have completely covered trunk wheel wells and rear quarter panels.

I isolated from the trunk by slipping vinyl into the back seats back. You'll see what I mean when you take your seat out.

When you talk to Don at SDS Sound deadner Showdown tell him Don from Dallas said HI.

Forgot to mention I changed tires to Michelin Pilot AS Sport 245/45 17. Michelin gave me these under warrenty after I complained about road noise,,great customer service but didn't help noise any,,
So simply by db measurements you haven't noticed any improvements to speak of with Don's whole system?

Hmm thats kinda discouraging, as I'm sure the cost of all these materials wont be cheap.

I know that the meter should tell you everything you need to do but beacuse its an iphone and not the most sensitive mic in the world, lets assume that the db meter on the phone isn't the greatest tool to measure this... and go with the next best option you had available to you at the time... your ears...

did you feel like it was any quieter? did you think u hear a major noticible difference?
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post #24 of 112 Old 03-22-2010, 10:46 AM
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pictures posted



Does this work? Can't test it at my work
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post #25 of 112 Old 03-22-2010, 11:18 AM
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Good write up Kevin,

He did you email Don the measurement's??


Note: I think i am the only one not doing the System haha.. No need for that..

10' V6 Coupe BBP



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post #26 of 112 Old 03-22-2010, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPearl2010 View Post
Good write up Kevin,

He did you email Don the measurement's??


Note: I think i am the only one not doing the System haha.. No need for that..
Yea i e-mailed it to him saturday morning and got a reply sunday morning telling me that hes working on getting the dimensions together and that he'd get back to me today.

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pictures posted



Does this work? Can't test it at my work
yes it does work and thanks for posting thatt!
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post #27 of 112 Old 03-22-2010, 12:32 PM
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Yea i e-mailed it to him saturday morning and got a reply sunday morning telling me that hes working on getting the dimensions together and that he'd get back to me today.
Ok sounds good man..

Man you did some hell of a job n Measurements.. While i was in the Sun.. on a Speed boat.. with Ladies haha..

You should come next time... Bring your girl..

10' V6 Coupe BBP



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post #28 of 112 Old 03-22-2010, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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yea thanks for inviting me AFTER the event lol.

I worked 30 hours this weekend dude... between sat and sunday.

Couldn't have come even if you did ask before lol.. but next time definitely let me know!
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post #29 of 112 Old 03-22-2010, 12:46 PM
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haha.. i know man but i didn't want to come.

Damn bro 15 hrs days.. i hate those.... ahhh make me so damn tired at the end of the day...

Yeah bro i will invite you next time we go..

We are going Air Boat riding soon... If you down to come with.

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post #30 of 112 Old 03-25-2010, 12:31 PM
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This is what don sent me:

Here's what I would do:

Doors:
7 CLD Tiles, outer skin
2 CLD Tiles, cut into smaller pieces, inner skin
Extruded Butyl Rope
9.5 ft MLV
9.5 ft 1/4" CCF
3 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

Clean the outer skin thoroughly. No matter how clean the rest of the vehicle is, the inside of the doors is likely to be filthy. I use denatured alcohol on a rag. Wipe it down until the rag comes out clean.

Start by pressing Extruded Butyl Rope (EBR) between the outer skin and the side impact protection beams. Leave gaps every few inches to allow water to drain. Cut some strips from a heavy plastic bag and press them into the top surface of the EBR to protect it from dirt.

Apply half the CLD Tiles allocated to the outer skin above and half below the side impact protection beam. Cut 2 more CLD Tiles into smaller pieces and apply them to the inner door skin.

Hang MLV on the inner door skin using Velcro Patches with pressure sensitive adhesive on both sides. The patches are 2"X4" but you can cut them in half for this application (most applications really). Start with 2 pieces in the top corners to hold the MLV in place while you trim it to fit. You want it to be as large as it can be - just barely fitting inside the trim panel when it is replaced. You will need to cut some holes in the MLV to allow cables, rods, shafts, wires, clips and the speakers to come through. You want these holes to be as small as possible. Every place we use MLV we are building a barrier and a barrier needs to be as large and contiguous as possible.

It helps during the fitting process to periodically remove the MLV from the door and lay it in the trim panel to test fit it. The Velcro makes this easy. When you first hang the MLV on the door, cut holes where the trim panel clips go into the door. You can then use these holes to orient the MLV inside the trim panel.

When you are satisfied with the MLV fit, add two more Velcro Patch pieces to the bottom corners. It's generally a good idea to add a third piece on top for added strength. Finally, use HH-66 Vinyl Cement to tack a layer of closed cell foam (CCF) on the side of the MLV facing the trim panel. When the trim panel is reinstalled, the CCF will compress slightly, getting rid of rattles and buzzes in the trim panel itself and between the trim panel and the inner door skin.

Kick Panel/Front Foot Well Outer Sides (each):
1/2 CLD Tile
.9 ft MLV
.9 ft 1/8" CCF
1.5 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

The exterior facing sides of the front foot wells can be a real problem for both tire/wheel and traffic noise. It's important to include this area in the barrier "bubble". If it's possible, I'd remove the fuse box, run MLV under it and reinstall. If that's not possible, get the MLV as close to the edges of the fuse box as possible.

Every vertical surface except the doors will be treated with 1/8" CCF and MLV - after treating the sheet metal with CLD Tiles. This PDF demonstrates how to hang CCF and MLV on vertical surfaces, using as little space as possible.


Floor:
10 CLD Tiles
34.5 ft MLV
34.5 ft 1/4" CCF

If we went by area alone, the floor would want 20 CLD Tiles to reach 25% coverage. Since the floor already has vibration damper installed from the factory and there is nothing to be gained by applying vibration damper on top of vibration damper, 10 will be plenty to treat the untreated sheet metal.

The floor is quite easy compared to the doors, except that you need to remove the seats, the carpet and any trim that touches the carpet. Start with CLD Tiles.

Cut 1/4" CCF to fit the bottoms of the floor pans and up into the foot wells and lay it in place. You really don't need any adhesive or other attachment products for the floor. Gravity, the carpet, seats and trim panels will hold everything in place. Finally, lay MLV on top of the CCF, extending up the center tunnel, sills and everywhere you can without interfering with trim panel replacement. You will need to cut holes for the seat bolt downs and seat belt anchors if they are on the floor. Again, make these holes as small as possible. You are basically upholstering the floor with MLV.

This is a good place to talk about working with MLV. You want to create as close to an unbroken layer as possible. The nature of the material can make this a little challenging. MLV is very flexible in one direction at a time. It can not be forced to follow compound curves. As a result, you will need to cut pleats and possibly combine multiple pieces to accommodate complex shapes and corners. You should seal any seams you create and HH-66 Vinyl Contact Cement is ideal for this purpose.

Back Seat Ledge:
8 CLD Tiles
13.5 ft MLV
13.5 ft 1/8" CCF

This is functionally part of the floor and you should at least overlap the MLV where it joins the floor. For future maintenance it's probably better not to glue the seam. This is quoted separately from the floor because there isn't room for 1/4" CCF under the back seat.

Back Seat Side Panels (each):
4 CLD Tiles
6 ft MLV
6 ft 1/8" CCF
2.5 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

Roof (area of sun roof not included):
10 CLD Tiles

The roof is a large resonant panel directly above your head - less so because of the sun roof. CLD Tiles are important. A slight improvement can be had by adding a layer of 1/4" CCF. I didn't include materials for this because it is the lowest value treatment in the package. Adding CCF would add about $35 to the project.

Rear Deck:
5 CLD Tiles
7.3 ft 1/4" CCF

Rattles are the biggest problem here. Remove the plastic trim panel. Apply CLD Tiles to the top surface of the sheet metal. Cut 1/4" CCF to fit the deck. Cut holes to clear any moving parts. Reinstall trim panel.

C-Pillars (each):
1 CLD Tiles
1.7 ft MLV
1.7 ft 1/8" CCF
1.5 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

You probably will have to remove the C-Pillar trim panels to remove the rear deck trim panel. Since there are airbags in the C-Pillars, you may not be able to or may not want to treat this area. Please be careful. Whether or not you treat this area, you should always disconnect the negative battery terminal before you strip the car. It's a good idea to wait 1/2 hour or so before doing anything else. An accidentally deployed airbag is no joke.

Trunk Floor:
8 CLD Tiles, horizontal surfaces
5 CLD Tiles, sides of spare tire well
22.2 ft MLV
22.2 ft 1/8" CCF

You have a choice when applying CCF and MLV to the trunk floor. The easiest approach is to run over the spare well cover, under the carpet. Running under the cover and down into the spare tire well will give a more OEM looking result. There shouldn't be a noticeable difference in performance either way.

Trunk Lid:
4 CLD Tiles

Rattles are the problem. Noise intrusion is not.

Quarter Panels (each):
6 CLD Tiles
9 ft MLV
9 ft 1/8" CCF
3 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

The sides of the trunk will make you hate your life and probably me Covering the quarter panels and especially the wheel wells can be trying. As always, the best approach is to start with the largest areas you can cover with a single section. Some find it helpful to use CCF for making templates since it is much more flexible than MLV. Fortunately, HH-66 not only makes it possible to create seams that are stronger than the surrounding MLV, it also makes it easy to correct mistakes. It doesn't have to be pretty.

General Notes
HH-66 is a contact adhesive that will only bond materials with vinyl content. That means MLV to MLV, CCF (like the material I sell with vinyl content) to CCF and MLV to CCF. You need to coat both surfaces and let them dry until just tacky, 3-5 minutes. Press the two parts together. The bond is more than strong enough to work with immediately. It will achieve its full strength after a few hours.

Velcro Patches can be cut in half (2X2) for all but the most demanding applications. When working with the self-adhesive side(s) the Velcro Patches press the entire assembly into place. It is a good idea to gently separate the hook and loop sides and press them down by themselves to make sure the bond is complete.

Totals:
91 CLD Tiles
1 roll Extruded Butyl Rope
124.4 ft MLV
60.8 ft 1/4" CCF
70.9 ft 1/8" CCF
23 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides
1 32 oz can HH-66 Vinyl Contact Cement

As an Order:
91 CLD Tiles 2.25 = $204.75
1 roll Extruded Butyl Rope 8.75 = 8.75
1 135 ft roll MLV 235.00 = 235.00
5 sheets 1/4" CCF 25.65 = 128.25
5 sheets 1/8" CCF 14.55 = 72.75
2 Velcro Strips, adh 2 sides, 10-pack 13.00 = 26.00
2 Velcro Strips, adh 2 sides, 2-pack 3.25 = 6.50
1 32 oz can HH-66 Vinyl Contact Cement 15.25 = 15.25
1 2" Maples Roller N/C

Sub Total: $697.25
Shipping for MLV:
Shipping for Balance:
Total: $



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