Did Honda really make odometer fraud that easy? - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #1 of 16 Old 09-13-2013, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Did Honda really make odometer fraud that easy?

Preface: tampering with the reported mileage on a vehicle is illegal. The purpose of this thread isn't to be a "how to" but to ask "is there any way to protect yourself as a used car buyer".

I was recently watching a Youtube video discussing buying a used car, and the guy mentioned that something to watch out for is fleet vehicles where they do [redacted] and then do [redacted] when selling the vehicle to make it magically have low miles again. In addition to other exterior and interior changes to make the vehicle appear newer than it really is.

So I went out and did the method that the guy in the Youtube video discussed to see if it would work with our cars, hoping to not set off any alarm bells in the process. Turns out...it worked, and as far as I can tell no alarm bells were set off.

So...this question is more for Honda mechanics who have HDS access....did Honda implement some sort of failsafe for used car buyers to be able to determine if the odometer has been tampered with? It seems like common sense to store the true mileage in the ECU as well as the odometer and to throw up a red flag if the two numbers disagree. Or do you have to look at service records / DMV recorded mileage to be able to guess if there's something fishy going on?


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post #2 of 16 Old 09-13-2013, 06:28 PM
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post #3 of 16 Old 09-13-2013, 07:10 PM
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No different from a traditional mechanical odometer built into the cluster. Really the best way to combat fraud is to check a VIN's history... Sales, registrations, emissions, accidents, etc usually note mileage (though it varies by state).
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post #4 of 16 Old 09-13-2013, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Agreeing with an admin PM, I've self-redacted the process I used to not give would-be criminals any ideas. It doesn't appear the method is particularly well known at this time from a google search.

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post #5 of 16 Old 09-13-2013, 07:41 PM
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Just wanted to add a note that DA forum rules will not allow discussion of means to achieve or conduct illegal activities, one such example is how to download or distribute illegal software.

Similarly, any discussion with how digital odometer fraud can be achieved will not be allowed here, so as not to further contribute to this problem.

Hope y'all understand.

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post #6 of 16 Old 09-13-2013, 07:57 PM
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Well if you found it on YouTube then chances are that some criminal has already found it too

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post #7 of 16 Old 09-17-2013, 09:05 PM
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When the Accord Crosstour first came out, I was interested in buying the Crosstour's instrument cluster. It has a classier finish than the Accords, better font and dials, but still is the same box and electronics as the regular Accord. I decided against it when I realized $350.00 just wasn't worth wasting for nicer looking gauges lol!

While I was in the process of investigating the possibility of putting this gauge cluster into my car with already at the time around 25,000 miles, I had asked a dealer how that works when replacing a gauge cluster. He said the true mileage is stored in the ECU, and has to be programmed to the new cluster when a new cluster is installed.

Based on that I would think it would be expensive for any used car dealer NOT under the umbrella of a new car Honda dealer to farce up the mileage. But if it can be done with some simple steps found on youtube that's scary. I mean, I know on the internet there are how to videos on everything including building illegal weapon and making illicit drugs. But I just can't fathom how Honda engineers would make it so easy to fandangle the odometer. That should have gone the way of the do-do bird the second digital odometers and ECMs were engineered into cars.

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post #8 of 16 Old 09-18-2013, 06:07 AM
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Yeah, he is correct...

The ECU stores the mileage, the cluster just reports what is stored in memory from the ECU.

Both the ECU and Cluster can be programed by a Honda tech during replacement. So, if you are worried about obtaining a car by its milage, just take it to a dealer and have them check it.

If there is a discrepancy with ODO and ECU, you have legitimate reason to act upon a fraudulent claim with the selling party.

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post #9 of 16 Old 09-18-2013, 06:51 AM
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I thought you could just put the car on blocks and drive it in reverse to roll back the miles... : )
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post #10 of 16 Old 09-18-2013, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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It'd be tempting to go to the dealer with my cluster unplugged and see if the mileage can still be read from the ECU. (Although I've got enough probably-warranty-voiding mods to make this a bad idea). I was thinking that it could be legitimately possible for a wiring issue to cause the cluster to not receive the vehicle speed and not increment mileage.

"I thought you could just put the car on blocks and drive it in reverse to roll back the miles... : )"

I know if I were designing the system, the first corner case I would think of was people driving backwards. If (tranny == reverse) change_mileage = 0;

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post #11 of 16 Old 09-18-2013, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drowned12 View Post

"I thought you could just put the car on blocks and drive it in reverse to roll back the miles... : )"

I know if I were designing the system, the first corner case I would think of was people driving backwards. If (tranny == reverse) change_mileage = 0;
Why stop mileage changing when reversing? It makes no sense. Just have mileage increment normally upwards whenever the vehicle moves either forwards or backwards. The sensor just gives pulses as the vehicle wheel turns and it doesn't matter to the counter whether the pulses are received when the vehicle is going forwards or backwards.

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post #12 of 16 Old 09-18-2013, 11:12 AM

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it's a joke...

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post #13 of 16 Old 09-18-2013, 11:58 AM
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it's a joke...

Buuuueeellllleeeerrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hahaha

Sorry I had too!

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post #14 of 16 Old 01-02-2016, 12:13 AM
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Great post, I don't mean to revive an old thread; however, I am in the market to replace my 115k mile old Accord's instrument cluster with a newer Crosstour's. When I saw somebody else on the forums complete this, it showed that the new cluster retained the mileage (from the original Crosstour) after being replaced in the Accord.

Now, my question is, since it's stored in the ECU, why doesn't the cluster automatically display the true mileage?

Has anybody inquired from Honda if it is possible for some sort of flash or update from a Honda tech to give the real mileage? I've heard it is in fact illegal.. Although something tells me that it's only illegal if the mileage is rolled back to something younger than the actual age of the car it is installed to, rather retaining the exact same milage - just on the new cluster, almost as an exact swap. What if somebody is working on their odometer and completely screws it up? Wouldn't they need a brand new one, not showing their true mileage and must have it replaced?
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post #15 of 16 Old 01-02-2016, 01:41 AM Thread Starter
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I'm not positive, but I don't believe it's possible to set the mileage on a cluster when it's already been set. New clusters can be installed if they break and then mileage can be programmed, but I don't know if it can be done on a used one. It's not something I even want to test out with my HDS for fear of tripping some alarm in the ECU that mileage may not be accurate.


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