Origin of the 3x drain and fill, do not flush transmission - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #1 of 13 Old 07-22-2011, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Origin of the 3x drain and fill, do not flush transmission

Last weekend I bought a certified used 09 Accord EX-L with 45,000 miles. During the certification inspection the dealer performed a 1x drain and fill with Honda ATF Z1.

I don't want to get into a Z1 vs. DW1 argument.

I have heard a 1x drain and fill is acceptable, but that most people do a 3x drain and fill. I know it is supposed to get out more of the old fluid doing it 3x.

Do people do this 3x vs. 1x just for peace of mind and (relatively) cheap insurance for their transmission? The manual just states to replace the transmission fluid without any more direction than that. And their seems to be a difference of opinion between what the dealership does and the DIYer's.

Normally that wouldn't surprise me at all, but in this case the dealership seems to go with the easier, cheaper option. You would think they would want to do a 3x drain and fill to sell more fluid, and charge more labor if it were at all justifiable.

Maybe I'm looking for an excuse to go buy some DW-1 and do another drain and fill or two, but it just doesn't make sense to me why these different opinions exist, and why the owners manual or Honda won't be more specific about this importance piece of maintenance.

Any one have any thoughts about this?

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post #2 of 13 Old 07-22-2011, 12:42 PM
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3 Times ensures that you have clean fluid.

1 time doesn't.

It is your car, but Transmissions are more expensive than Trans fluid.

The dealer will always take the cheap route and charge you the expensive route. That is the way they roll.


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post #3 of 13 Old 07-22-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptrulock View Post
Maybe I'm looking for an excuse to go buy some DW-1 and do another drain and fill or two, but it just doesn't make sense to me why these different opinions exist, and why the owners manual or Honda won't be more specific about this importance piece of maintenance.

Any one have any thoughts about this?

3X is just another opinion too. It's not a prescription to cure AT ills. There are people that did one drain and fill and the AT is fine at 100K miles. And there are those that do 3X often, like every 30K and the AT is fine at 100K miles.

Honda AT is a gamble. Take your pick.

My opinion is to maybe do one drain & fill every 25K. No reason or logic, just another opinion.

DIY is suppose to save you money. It make no cents to spend it on a 3X drain & fill. That's just another opinion.

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post #4 of 13 Old 07-22-2011, 10:09 PM
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A 3x drain and fill is what Honda considers a flush since they advise against using a machine to do a flush.

And since we no longer have access to their service bulletins anymore, I can't show you the .pdf.

So here's a few posts that refer to the new procedure (even though it says Acura, it's the same procedure for Honda too).

:

Quote:
There has been a major change in Acura's thinking on how to do this, and they have supplied a method for the 3 drain and flush procedure so you don't have to actually drive the car between drains. Here's the link to the Service News Article, and it's the first topic shown.

New Honda ATF Transmission Flush Procedure

and



and



Quote:
Some A/T repair procedures call for flushing the trans using Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1 (and no substitutes). Problem is, where do you find the info to do that? It’s
not listed in the S/Ms and if you do an ISIS search, you’ll find a few ServiceNews articles on this subject, but they’re rather dated, and none of them say the same thing.

NOTE:
The term “flushing” refers to repeatedly draining and refilling the trans with Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1. Don’t confuse it with aftermarket flush systems. American Honda still strongly recommends that you avoid using them on any Acura vehicle. The original procedure was written for simpler A/Ts that readily upshifted when you ran the vehicle on a lift. But A/Ts have come a long way since then, and most of the newer ones balk at shifting past 2nd gear when on a lift, unless you work the shift lever a certain way. In light of all this, we thought it was high time that the A/T flushing procedure got a facelift. So here’s the latest word on flushing that works for all A/Ts:

1. Set the park brake, and raise the vehicle on a lift.
2. Drain the trans, and refill it with Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1. Refer to the applicable S/M or to ISIS
for details.
3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the park brake.
4. Push down on the accelerator pedal to raise the vehicle speed to 2,500 rpm.
• If the trans shifts past 2nd gear, go to step 5.
• If the trans won’t shift past 2nd gear, keep the engine speed at 2,500 rpm and shift from Drive to
Neutral and back to Drive. Then go to step 5.
5. Make sure that the trans shifts through all the forward gears and goes into torque converter lockup.
6. Let off the accelerator pedal, and press the brake pedal to drop the vehicle speed to zero. Shift into
Reverse and then into Neutral.
7. Shift into Drive, and repeat steps 4 thru 6 four more times.
8. Set the park brake, and repeat steps 2 thru 6 two more times.
9. Drain the trans, and reinstall the drain plug with a new sealing washer.
10. Refill the A/T with ATF-Z1.

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post #5 of 13 Old 08-15-2011, 11:46 AM
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It's 3x and not 4x because on the 4x, you are draining out more new fluid than old fluid.

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post #6 of 13 Old 08-15-2011, 12:09 PM
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i bought my 03 i4 75k-miles 6 months ago. i'm weary of dealer shops...

a local mechanic opened up a few months ago and i stopped for a visit... he is a former Honda dealer mechanic w/ Honda certifications and stuff...he invited me to go back into his bays (very clean) and talked to me while he worked on a customers car. his prices are competitive and he seemed to know his stuff.

Anyways...when i asked him about the 3x vs mechanical flush, he claims he does mechanical all the time and (other than the V6 problem years) there is no problem with such. Should i be skeptical ?

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post #7 of 13 Old 08-15-2011, 01:20 PM
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Just drop it once a year (every 15k-ish) and be done.

If you're crazy anal about it, drop 3 at every oil change.
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post #8 of 13 Old 08-17-2011, 05:06 PM
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thats such a waste of money drain and refill once, drive it for about 2 weeks and drain/refill again and then once more a week later i bet it will clean the tranny better than 3x drain and fill
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post #9 of 13 Old 11-17-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StdDeviation View Post
....

Anyways...when i asked him about the 3x vs mechanical flush, he claims he does mechanical all the time and (other than the V6 problem years) there is no problem with such. Should i be skeptical ?
Which years are the "V6 problem years"??

I just bought a used '05 Accord V6 from a private seller with 38k miles and just wondering if this is included in the problem year that I have to watch out for...

If it is, what recommended maintenance should I do now? A 3x drain/fill??? Should I use dw-1 or should I possibly just switch to redline d4 now?? Do I need to change the tranny filter too? Also are there any O-ring seals I need to buy new if I do the 3x drain/fill??


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post #10 of 13 Old 11-17-2011, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSS View Post
I just bought a used '05 Accord V6 from a private seller with 38k miles and just wondering if this is included in the problem year that I have to watch out for...
For the 7th gen, it's predominantly the 03-05, though I have read of some 06-07 V6 models that have had transmission problems too.
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post #11 of 13 Old 01-01-2012, 03:20 PM
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I was low on tranny fluid, so i went to the dealer to get fluid..They gave me DW-1(the new honda trans fluid) and told me it was fine to mix with atf-z1. Is this true? because i already did it and my trans shifts differently now. Its not a bad shift, just different. Maybe its different because i was low on fluid.
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post #12 of 13 Old 01-10-2012, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbplayer257 View Post
I was low on tranny fluid, so i went to the dealer to get fluid..They gave me DW-1(the new honda trans fluid) and told me it was fine to mix with atf-z1. Is this true? because i already did it and my trans shifts differently now. Its not a bad shift, just different. Maybe its different because i was low on fluid.
I have found that DW-1 shifts more harshly than Z1 on the Fit that I recently serviced.
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post #13 of 13 Old 06-08-2013, 08:55 AM
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interesting read about "flushes"
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