Lying - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
View Poll Results: Is lying by omission the same as a lie?
yep 21 26.92%
nope 17 21.79%
depends 40 51.28%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 21 Old 01-04-2007, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Lying

Last night the boys didn't tell me they were gorunded from TV & I'd put in the rest of a movie they hadn't finished watching from the night before. After it was over they asked to play video games & knowing they were grounded from them, I said no. So they asked if they could watch another movie. One said (he really wanted to play PS2) they really weren't supposed to watch the movie because they were grounded.

To me, this was the same as lying....by omission. Am I nuts? I went off on them for lying...... I'm not a yeller or a screamer, so it was a firm lecture. But today I'm thinking not everyone would view this the same....so I'm curious....

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post #2 of 21 Old 01-04-2007, 02:47 PM
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Me being a kid, this is not lying...you didn't ask

I don't think it'd hurt though. I've never been grounded I think I turned out okay...maybe?

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post #3 of 21 Old 01-04-2007, 02:53 PM
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I had to vote "depends", as there are two different cases of the same thing imo: yours and SSMV6s.

In your case/example, then yes, I'd consider what they did a lie. They knew they were not supposed to watch the movie, but did so anyways, since you didn't know they were not allowed to do so.

In SSMV6s case (the whole surprise party that technically wasn't a surprise) it's different, as in that case I wouldn't want to admit to knowing unless asked directly. In this case its more to "protect" the person who worked hard on doing something nice, and isn't for "personal gain" as yours was.

Hope this helps.

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post #4 of 21 Old 01-04-2007, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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I wasn't ever grounded either..... but I was ssssssssooooooooooo good!!!


Maybe it's just a touchy issue for with the stuff going on with their parents....


I'd not consider omitting info about a surprise a lie. I've done it. I've been lucky not to be asked point blank though.

I think we ALL have lied. I have. I've told pushy salespeople that called that I was the babysitter..... They gave me the idea by asking for my "mommy"..... ask Benji, I don't sound very grown up on the phone!!!
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post #5 of 21 Old 01-04-2007, 03:05 PM
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hmmmm, if they don't ask you point blank about something, then it shouldn't be a problem.....

i have gotten away with that too.... keeping my mouth shut....

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post #6 of 21 Old 01-04-2007, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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So should I have asked the boys "are you guys grounded from anything today?" before I started a movie?

They ASKED to finish watching the movie.

I did think it was weird that Jarrison (the 4 year old) had his head down as if playing with hotwheels on the floor & would look up at the screen. At the time I took that as not being all the interested in the movie. Now I think it was because he knew he wasn't supposed to watch it.....
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post #7 of 21 Old 01-04-2007, 04:08 PM
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My View:

The question you have to ask (maybe more elevated than your situation):

Is there intent to deceive? Is there an action? If so, yes it is lying, if not, than nope.

Ground them. It will teach them a lesson.
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post #8 of 21 Old 01-04-2007, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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Mom does the grounding & she did. They had done well for most of yesterday & got the games back, but not the TV for movies or cartoons.

We give them more slack than the parents since we're grandparents & it's our job. But the spoiling we do stops when the attitude is bad. My line is "I don't reward bad behavior". Not too grandparenty, but sometimes I gotta pull rank.

In general, they're wonderful boys & we enjoy them very much. All kids have their moments though.

In this case, their intention WAS to deceive & it worked. I reacted with anger. Not how I normally do it. I'm usually the one to defend their boyish behavior. Lying is just a BIG issue for me.

So I guess to not have this one happen again, I'll have to remember to ask the parent if there's exsisting restrictions & not just trust them to tell me.

There's changes going on in their lives now & we're trying to be patient, but being bright kids, they will take advantage of that. They'll be going back to their "old" school on Monday. So they're dealing with the normal fears & excitement of that. They've been told their parents are separated. They KNEW something was going on.....
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post #9 of 21 Old 01-04-2007, 08:28 PM
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*not that this matters*

But I agree that lying is an ethical choice that is unacceptable. Letting people (even children) get away with the "small" lies only sets them up for huge failure in real life.

I think Princess made the right choice for sure. Such a shame that the rest of America can't raise their children/grandchildren the same way...


The small lessons early in life will keep them from learning from much bigger "lessons" later.
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post #10 of 21 Old 01-05-2007, 04:46 AM
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When I was a kid, I would kill to play video games or watch tv. So lying isnt that bad.

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post #11 of 21 Old 01-05-2007, 08:05 AM
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They deliberately witheld information for personal gain.. That's a deceitfull thing to do, so yep, a punishment was in order.. But they knew that before they did it..

Educating kids is no fun, but if you do get it right, then you add some nice people to the world, but get it wrong, or worse still, dont bother to teach morality at all.. Then we get more problem people on the planet, and the quality of all our lives go down..
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post #12 of 21 Old 01-06-2007, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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Maybe it's from already raising 3 kids, but I'm more tollerant of the "cover my butt" lies. Everyone does it. Did you do it? NOPE. (just in case there's a big punishment involved) . With my kids, if you lied about a direct question, but amitted it when being confronted....the punishment was much less than if you stuck to the lie. Parents seem to always know!

Lying to just be able to do something you want to do....well, that's more of an outright lie to me. My brain sees it as cheating.

The rest of this week I kept reminding them they'd have to ask mom....since I couldn't trust them. Next week I'll go nack to normal. I felt the need to make a point. It seems to have worked pretty well.
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-06-2007, 10:05 AM
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Althought what you did was right (no argue there) sometimes kids intentions are not completely in a "deceitful" way. It could be that at some point they thought you talked to mom and decided it's OK for them to watch TV now. Of course they didn't think it would be "wise" to tell you at the time because they wanted to watch the movie and they DID ask you before watching it

I think the point of argument should be in how we should teach them to respect why they're grounded and actually try to learn from it knowing that it's THE right thing to do for a reason. Not just as a punishment.

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post #14 of 21 Old 01-06-2007, 10:56 AM
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I wouldn't exactly call it lying.. It's called taking advantage o the situation. Lecturing the kids on lying because of this situation is probably not the best thing to do since you're more likely to get confused as to what lying really means...

Quote:
I think the point of argument should be in how we should teach them to respect why they're grounded and actually try to learn from it knowing that it's THE right thing to do for a reason. Not just as a punishment.
I agree completely!
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post #15 of 21 Old 01-06-2007, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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They KNEW what they were doing!! It's been done before. They've played parents against each other by the omission thing. Hunter is the one that's using it as a tool to get his way. Then he will be the one to correct it because he can't handle the guilt. So we're on the right track.

His mom has been great a pointing out any punishment is the consequence of something specific. They don't get grounded for being annoying, they get grounded when it looks like they willfully broke a rule. They get chances to redeem themselves.

I just firmly believe that in many circumstances....maybe not all, omission can be the same as lying.

If on a date, the question may never be asked if the other person is married. But by being on a date it would be the assumption, thus the other person is lying.

They aren't grounded now....they're at another grandparents for the weekend.... so we'll see. Mom thought it best to not have the grounding last through the weekend to eleminate the possiblity of a repeat of the same thing.

Monday they'll have a fresh start here too. They don't get video games or much TV on school nights anyway. That's been a Friday night tradition. Popcorn, ice cream, movies or/and video games & up for a couple extra hours.

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