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post #1 of 21 Old 01-13-2018, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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FlashPro input requests

We're getting near the release of FlashPro for the 10th Gen 2.0 Accord and would like some feedback as to what the community wants to see.

Firstly we realize that not everyone wants the absolute maximum possible power and torque. For many people this is a family vehicle, so reliability is paramount. So, on that basis, what is the minimum % increase in power and torque that Accord owners would be happy with?

Secondly, what would be a medium % increase power and torque owners would would be happy with?

Thirdly, there are a few people who want the maximum possible. That vehicle would need to be a MT, with clutch, intake and exhaust and we have not seen such a vehicle yet. If you have such a vehicle, and live in SoCal, drop us a PM.

Fourth. Emissions. Please post and indicate your preference for a:
  • CARB FlashPro, in which you have preset calibrations that allow for alteration of all parameters including boost levels but exclude fuel and ignition.
  • Race FlashPro which allows tuning of all parameters including fuel and ignition.

Lastly: price. A formula that many subscribe is horsepower / dollar. The best intakes for the turbo Civics make around 10 horsepower for $200. What should we charge for FlashPro if we can make 20 HP? 40 HP? 60 HP?


Last edited by Hondata; 01-13-2018 at 08:18 PM.
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post #2 of 21 Old 01-13-2018, 08:42 PM
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I vote medium power. As much as you can safely get out of 91oct. Would be really happy with 40hp but not sure if that would require an intake etc. think $600 is more than fair for that much power. Not to mention what tq numbers would be! Cant wait


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post #3 of 21 Old 01-13-2018, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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What's your vote on CARB or race version?
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post #4 of 21 Old 01-13-2018, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondata View Post
What's your vote on CARB or race version?
I have the 10auto so not sure how much it would handle a race version. Carb or more conservative maps would be nice for mpgs & longevity

Im sure most ppl would want the option to adjust boost, fuel, ignition for carb and race maps. Guess more so for the mechanically inclined
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Last edited by namegoeshere; 01-13-2018 at 09:47 PM. Reason: merge
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post #5 of 21 Old 01-14-2018, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondata View Post
We're getting near the release of FlashPro for the 10th Gen 2.0 Accord and would like some feedback as to what the community wants to see.

Firstly we realize that not everyone wants the absolute maximum possible power and torque. For many people this is a family vehicle, so reliability is paramount. So, on that basis, what is the minimum % increase in power and torque that Accord owners would be happy with?

Secondly, what would be a medium % increase power and torque owners would would be happy with?

Thirdly, there are a few people who want the maximum possible. That vehicle would need to be a MT, with clutch, intake and exhaust and we have not seen such a vehicle yet. If you have such a vehicle, and live in SoCal, drop us a PM.

Fourth. Emissions. Please post and indicate your preference for a:
  • CARB FlashPro, in which you have preset calibrations that allow for alteration of all parameters including boost levels but exclude fuel and ignition.
  • Race FlashPro which allows tuning of all parameters including fuel and ignition.

Lastly: price. A formula that many subscribe is horsepower / dollar. The best intakes for the turbo Civics make around 10 horsepower for $200. What should we charge for FlashPro if we can make 20 HP? 40 HP? 60 HP?
• In terms of acceleration, I believe the smallest change we can feel is about .3 seconds in the quarter mile. To make any upgrade worth the money, I would image that .3 second delta is the minimum increase in acceleration you’d need, or why do it at all? In a 3,200 pound car that is about 14.2 seconds in the quarter, you’d need about 30 HP to shave off .3 seconds in the quarter. That seems like the minimum required power increase to me.

• In terms of reliability, if the Civic Type R safely produces about 50 hp more than the Accord. 50 hp seems like a reasonable number for engine safety.

• Is the 10th gen as traction challenged as previous gens? If yes that may impose an upper limit, unless the goal is to get from 50 to 125 as quickly as possible, and maybe that is the goal .

• In terms of turbo lag, how does turbo lag increase with respect to an increase in power? What is the shape of that curve? For example, if an extra 30 hp increases lag by .2 seconds, 40 hp increases lag by .3 seconds and 50 hp increases lag by .8 seconds, perhaps 40 hp is the sweet-spot for compromise on a daily driver.
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post #6 of 21 Old 01-14-2018, 01:12 PM
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I would rather you narrow the power band even more to reduce the turbo lag and and up the horsepower by 30. Have you looked at the dyno with a turbo blanket btw?
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post #7 of 21 Old 01-14-2018, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Baldeagle View Post

In terms of turbo lag, how does turbo lag increase with respect to an increase in power? What is the shape of that curve? For example, if an extra 30 hp increases lag by .2 seconds, 40 hp increases lag by .3 seconds and 50 hp increases lag by .8 seconds, perhaps 40 hp is the sweet-spot for compromise on a daily driver.
Thanks for all the detailed feedback. Keep it coming.

We see pre-programmed turbo lag in the MT, which we will remove. Don't know why. Ask Honda. Maybe the engine is too responsive.

We'll look carefully at the AT boost and lag behavior, but are pretty sure it will be less than the MT.

We don't think that increasing the boost levels will increase boost lag - but we will examine the data.
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post #8 of 21 Old 01-14-2018, 10:50 PM
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30~40 hp in gains if its in the threshold of realibilty (I drive 25k miles a year and so I need the car to last me 100k plus miles troublefree thats 100k miles trouble free from the wife also!
So ~300 hp and ~340tq at crank?
I vote carb
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post #9 of 21 Old 01-14-2018, 11:09 PM
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Carb. This is my daily,so it needs to be reliable. I would think 30 to 40 hp. Would be great. 300 hp 350 tq would be ideal. Not sure about anyone else but this car sure spins the tires easily. Hondata how reliable do you think this engine and the 10at would be with an added 30hp?
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post #10 of 21 Old 01-15-2018, 07:26 AM
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I'm thinking medium power/torque would equate to a stage 1 Tune. You can keep all stock exhaust/airbox for that. I'd like to see higher boost, better throttle response and more usable low end torque. I like the 'off the line' rush rather than high RPM gains. I want enough to really feel the difference from Stock. If possible, it would be nice to have an 87 Octane and 91 Octane map. Then, a Stage 2 map can be developed later when aftermarket parts come out if people decide to Mod.
Carb Flash is o.k. by me.
I have the 2.0 MT and am really looking forward to what tunes will be available.
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post #11 of 21 Old 01-15-2018, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Lunarsport2.0 View Post
Carb. This is my daily,so it needs to be reliable. I would think 30 to 40 hp. Would be great. 300 hp 350 tq would be ideal. Not sure about anyone else but this car sure spins the tires easily. Hondata how reliable do you think this engine and the 10at would be with an added 30hp?
30 hp is only a 11% power increase. I think engine and transmission would be fine. You'd probably see that much power increase between a hot day in Arizona on 87 octane, and a cold day in Canada on 93, with no tuning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by damianinpa View Post
If possible, it would be nice to have an 87 Octane and 91 Octane map.

I have the 2.0 MT and am really looking forward to what tunes will be available.
No octane specific maps are necessary. The ECU adapts to a change in octane very quickly. We've seen adaptation in as little as 8 seconds. The ECU will retard the timing, which reduces the power with low octane fuel and advances the timing with high octane fuel.

The ECU will also retard the ignition timing depending on how hot the engine is / how hard it is being driven.

You will be very excited by the performance gains.

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post #12 of 21 Old 01-15-2018, 05:12 PM
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I just purchased the 2.0T today and have been looking for a few weeks on any kind of aftermarket part yet available and haven't been able to find anything. Just the talk of getting a Flashpro unit for the Accord is exciting to me. I'd definitely want at least a medium tune. My biggest concern is that I just came from a 2018 Civic Si and the Hondata and Ktuner maps all gained decent power BUT fell off hard higher in the RPM's. Not sure if that's due to the lack of VTEC or the tiny turbos but it was concerning to me. If we can see a more stable HP and TQ curve higher in the RPM range, that would be ideal. If you go back and look at the maps I mentioned you can see a fairly big fall off after peak power mid way through the RPM range. That's not what I want at all. Eliminating the turbo lag I currently have would be ideal for starters though
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-16-2018, 07:51 PM
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30HP-40HP and similar gains in torque, oh and launch control .
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post #14 of 21 Old 01-16-2018, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dy2_str33t_king View Post
I just purchased the 2.0T today and have been looking for a few weeks on any kind of aftermarket part yet available and haven't been able to find anything. Just the talk of getting a Flashpro unit for the Accord is exciting to me. I'd definitely want at least a medium tune. My biggest concern is that I just came from a 2018 Civic Si and the Hondata and Ktuner maps all gained decent power BUT fell off hard higher in the RPM's. Not sure if that's due to the lack of VTEC or the tiny turbos but it was concerning to me. If we can see a more stable HP and TQ curve higher in the RPM range, that would be ideal. If you go back and look at the maps I mentioned you can see a fairly big fall off after peak power mid way through the RPM range. That's not what I want at all. Eliminating the turbo lag I currently have would be ideal for starters though
It takes time for a turbo to accelerate from 10,000 to over 100,000 rpm. Sorry. That bit is physics. We can reduce the turbo lag, but we cant eliminate it.

The base Civic power falls off sharply at 5500 rpm. This is due to back pressure from the very small turbine and housing. The Civic Si and Accord power curves are fairly flat in the last 1500 rpm. They have bigger turbos.

Civic Si base and tuned power map, followed by base Accord untuned power map.
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post #15 of 21 Old 01-16-2018, 10:00 PM
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[QUOTE=Hondata;6281034]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunarsport2.0 View Post
Carb. This is my daily,so it needs to be reliable. I would think 30 to 40 hp. Would be great. 300 hp 350 tq would be ideal. Not sure about anyone else but this car sure spins the tires easily. Hondata how reliable do you think this engine and the 10at would be with an added 30hp?
30 hp is only a 11% power increase. I think engine and transmission would be fine. You'd probably see that much power increase between a hot day in Arizona on 87 octane, and a cold day in Canada on 93, with no tuning.

Well it seems 30hp is a very minor tune. What are your speculations on hp an tq increases for a conservative tune? 50hp, 50tq?. Thanks for all the info, you've been very helpful. Can't wait to get my hands on flash pro.

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