Turbo 6-6 AWD Swap - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #1 of 20 Old 11-19-2017, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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Turbo 6-6 AWD Swap

This had been a pipe dream of mine ever since getting my Accord 4 years ago. After years of researching, browsing the net, google pictures, and forums, it seemed like it was plausible, just with an unknown amount of custom fabrication, which is what kept me from going through with it at first.

A big question that crossed my mind (and still does when things get frustrating) is why bother going through all this work and possible headache, when I could just trade my accord for a similar year and mileage TL SHAWD 6MT and have the complete AWD system already there and working, and a more luxury car to boot? Mainly, I think the 4g TL is pretty ugly, and I've always preferred the 2DR/coupe styling. Second obvious reason is being unique, and adding to what drove me to turbo the accord in the first place, the "sleeper aspect".

I was really interested in how much of this would really be a bolt on affair, and it still has me chuckling how many dimensions and bolt hole spacings etc, are the same between various Honda/Acura platforms (and on that note, how funny Honda can be changing small obscure dimensions as well, just to mess with me).

After a ton of trial and error and accumulating many parts from the various Honda/Acura platforms, a combination was found that let almost the whole swap be fully bolt on using all OEM parts with very minimal custom fabrication required. The only real "non bolt on" parts of the swap is the driveshaft needing to be shortened 2", needing to relocate/add the two tunnel supports for the driveshaft carrier bearings, and making two small brackets for the fuel tank straps. Everything else bolts on/in like it was made for the car.

Since this car has power goals much higher than the OEM accord or TL, certain aspects of the swap that could have been fully bolt on, were made custom instead, just for performance reasons rather than necessity.

Parts that were upgraded/customized for this particular build include a custom rear engine mount using 95A bushings (8g Accord Mount was cut up and used to fabricate a new mount entirely), a custom 3.5" AL driveshaft along with custom flange adapters to use billet flanges made for the dodge Hellcat, and since that driveshaft is much bigger than OEM (oem is 2.5"), it would no longer clear the OEM TL saddle fuel tank without me cutting the sheet metal above the tank to move it up, so the tank is coming out and a custom fuel cell trunk setup will go in it's place.

At this point the build is on hold waiting on the fuel cell and driveshaft. We are going to put the shortened OEM driveshaft in and test the whole setup out for any issues while waiting for the custom driveshaft. This includes one of the most important parts, the custom controller for the rear differential. It most likely would be possible to get the OEM TL AWD control unit to talk to the Accords CAN system and work, but it still wouldn't give me any level of customization control over the torque vectoring system, which I will definitely need. A prototype controller and code has been made using a standard Arduino. It will be able to transfer 0-100% of the torque to the rear wheels, and split that torque 0-100% R/L as well. Control strategy is going to be a trial and error process as well, most likely ending up using the wheel speed sensors to detect slip in each wheel and vector torque accordingly.

Taking a look at the FWD and AWD rear subframes and fuel tanks, and installed.




The AWD transmission has much more reinforcement everywhere, as well as bigger, stronger internals.



The TL SHAWD axles are also bigger and stronger than the Accord axles, with much thicker and higher quality boots as well. The inner (transmission side) splines are 2mm bigger as well, which is why it was required to use them. Luckily the outer splines are the same size, so they fit into the accord front hubs perfectly.



How the system as a whole looks outside the chassis.


You can see on the AWD front subframe, how the crossmember leaves much more room for the AWD transmission and transfer case.


You can see that the OEM Accord MT mount would not work here, and we didn't want to use the AWD design, so a custom one was made.





How it looks installed into the Accord chassis



Noticed a clearance issue with the crossmember and the transmission, as the 6MT AWD trans was not made to work with this AWD subframe exactly, so it took a little bit of sanding to give a little bit of clearance. A 4043 steel brace was added to the top of the cross member in this section to reinforce it.


The flanges were first modeled and prototyped on the 3d printer to verify fitment, the final ones will be made from 7075 Aluminum.






Thats it for now, I will update this post as the build progresses!


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post #2 of 20 Old 11-19-2017, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 1998jza80 View Post
Mainly, I think the 4g TL is pretty ugly, and I've always preferred the 2DR/coupe styling. Second obvious reason is being unique, and adding to the what drove me to turbo the accord in the first place, the "sleeper aspect".
Respect, man!. I've always admired the achievements of people who did their homework. This is what's called TUNING. Subscribed to see her in action. Can't wait actually!

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post #3 of 20 Old 11-19-2017, 08:46 AM
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My initial response after seeing the thread title but before reading the post, was "another one who doesn't know how much this will cost".

Although I still think that, I tip my hat to you to have done as much as you already have, this will be an interesting thread to follow.

Good job!

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post #4 of 20 Old 11-19-2017, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Aviography View Post
My initial response after seeing the thread title but before reading the post, was "another one who doesn't know how much this will cost".

Although I still think that, I tip my hat to you to have done as much as you already have, this will be an interesting thread to follow.

Good job!
Thanks Avio. So you're saying I still don't know how much this will cost, when I've already done it? The most expensive parts are actually the ones I didn't absolutely have to use, being the aftermarket driveshaft and fuel cell.

In order of most expensive to least off the top of my head,

Transmission (used)
Front subframe (used)
Intermediate shaft and front axles (New, but could have done used for 1/2 the cost but none were close by and shipping was too high)
Fuel tank and main/transfer fuel pump (used)
Rear diff (used)
Transfer Case (used)
Driveshaft (shortened myself)
Rear end (hubs/knuckles/brakes/axles) all of that besides the rotors I got used and refurbished myself.

Believe it or not the fuel cell (Radium) and Driveshaft (DSS) are going to cost the same as all of the above used parts put together. If one were to want the AWD swap without those things, it would be surprisingly affordable, assuming they did the labor and could do the small fabrication stuff themselves or have it done cheaply. The transmission was $1400, and the rest of the stuff gets drastically cheaper as you go down the list (being junkyard parts), so the rest of the stuff was "stupid cheap" (you can get the rear differentials for $100 each all day long since they are the same on multiple acuras) and so on.

This initial project was for sure costly as most junkyards don't allow returns, so I have a huge pile of parts that didn't fit (sub frames, axles, hubs, knuckles, fuel tanks etc) but had I had access to a list or guide to go from to avoid all the extra parts, It would have been "cheap" relative to what one would think it would cost.

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post #5 of 20 Old 11-20-2017, 10:28 AM
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Wooowww! OP, much props for this build. That is amazing. After I sold my previous daily - a 9th Si - I was in the market for a larger 6MT sedan. I also didn?t prefer the aesthetics of the 4G TL, but I can imagine that 6MT/AWD platform must have been nice. I ultimately purchased a ?17 Sport last year but almost bought a 6MT TSX. This was the second competitor since 1) I found a CU2 Modulo kit for a steal 2) I came across a guy parting out his Spirior conversion build.

I can only imagine how these sedans would be with a larger block + AWD + a MT. Keep us updated on your progress!

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post #6 of 20 Old 11-26-2017, 10:46 PM
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It sounds like a fun project build, specifically the interfacing with the CAN network. Do you have the CAN addresses and data translated to feed the AWD system? I think the tuning would be difficult, as in there might be some logic to protect the AWD system built into the Acura ECU's. It might be helpful to capture a TL's CAN to see how it responds to wheel slip, etc and how the TCM responds.

Performance wise, today you could pickup a Kia Stinger 3.3T AWD, throw a tune on it and meet/exceed the performance standards of what you're trying to build. Not to mention cheaper, a lot more luxurious, a lot sexier and very reliable. But that would be too easy.

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post #7 of 20 Old 11-27-2017, 02:58 AM Thread Starter
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It sounds like a fun project build, specifically the interfacing with the CAN network. Do you have the CAN addresses and data translated to feed the AWD system? I think the tuning would be difficult, as in there might be some logic to protect the AWD system built into the Acura ECU's. It might be helpful to capture a TL's CAN to see how it responds to wheel slip, etc and how the TCM responds.

Performance wise, today you could pickup a Kia Stinger 3.3T AWD, throw a tune on it and meet/exceed the performance standards of what you're trying to build. Not to mention cheaper, a lot more luxurious, a lot sexier and very reliable. But that would be too easy.
Fun with some frustration mixed in, as always. I have the addresses and it could be done but like I said I'm just going with a custom controller instead. It's not built into the engine ECU, the cars have their own AWD ECU. They don't use any comms from the engine ECU itself, just various sensors on the network and a few built into the unit itself. I have the control strategy data of the TL but I'm not using the system for cornering performance as much as straight line.

I already covered the "why do this when I could just buy x" thing in my original post. This car was already over 500HP when it was FWD, which the stinger will not reach with a tune, and had 0 reliability issues. Planning on over 1000hp now that 4 wheels will be able to put that to the ground usefully, so the stinger again won't come close unless you built that too. Looks are an opinion, I think the stinger looks great but I think the accord coupe looks better.
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post #8 of 20 Old 11-27-2017, 07:31 AM
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Planning on over 1000hp now that 4 wheels will be able to put that to the ground usefully

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post #9 of 20 Old 11-27-2017, 08:28 AM
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Keep my fingers crossed! 1000HP?! Can you unveil the mystery behind it? Where are you going to squeeze these horses from?
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post #10 of 20 Old 11-27-2017, 08:28 AM
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This is awesome!! I hope this turns out better than you planned!! Keep up the great work.


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post #11 of 20 Old 11-27-2017, 08:28 AM
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1998jza80 Break and hold the world record for the fasted AWD accord! Just like the CLM motorsports AWD civic.

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post #12 of 20 Old 11-27-2017, 11:03 AM
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All I can say is WOW!

I feel pretty good about myself when I simply change the oil all by myself.

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post #13 of 20 Old 11-28-2017, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Keep my fingers crossed! 1000HP?! Can you unveil the mystery behind it? Where are you going to squeeze these horses from?
Well the current turbo setup was at 530whp on the stock engine/trans/fuel system minus ID1000 injectors. Currently revamping it a little bit during the AWD swap, some small upgraded parts like valve springs to rev a little higher, I plan on maxing out the 6266 that's on it now on the stock lower end/sleeves, should be around 800whp. I have a built engine almost done that will be swapped in along with a 102mm turbo that will be going for the big numbers. The goal is actually a lot more than 1000, but people roll their eyes when they hear even 800, so I'm just going to wait until it actually makes numbers to post about the specifics, but I'm confident it will far surpass 1k. The driveline is going to be the weak point and due to the compact transverse transaxle it might prove to be the limiting factor both power and budget wise, but I'll never know until I try.

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post #14 of 20 Old 11-29-2017, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 1998jza80 View Post
Well the current turbo setup was at 530whp on the stock engine/trans/fuel system minus ID1000 injectors. Currently revamping it a little bit during the AWD swap, some small upgraded parts like valve springs to rev a little higher, I plan on maxing out the 6266 that's on it now on the stock lower end/sleeves, should be around 800whp. I have a built engine almost done that will be swapped in along with a 102mm turbo that will be going for the big numbers. The goal is actually a lot more than 1000, but people roll their eyes when they hear even 800, so I'm just going to wait until it actually makes numbers to post about the specifics, but I'm confident it will far surpass 1k. The driveline is going to be the weak point and due to the compact transverse transaxle it might prove to be the limiting factor both power and budget wise, but I'll never know until I try.
So immensely impressed with your work. Not that I think you need it, but best of luck with your build and finished product. Once that beauty ends up in a magazine you'll have to let us know so we can read all about it!

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post #15 of 20 Old 11-29-2017, 05:11 PM
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Impressive build indeed!

Could you post a itemized list of the items you used for your build as well as a decent estimate to the prices? I am currently at about 220k miles on my 13' V6 Accord Sedan and would definitely consider doing this if its not prohibitively expensive. My transmission is starting to shift a bit harder than usual when i don't replace the oil in the transmission every 15k miles. So im guessing that ill have to replace the trans sometime next year.

As for the power, I would plan something out for no more than 500hp as i'm looking for more power, but not at the expense of reliability. Keeping up with cars that can do 0-60 in 4 seconds is plenty fast for my Accord. Feel free to DM me if you would like.

Cheers Mate!

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