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post #1 of 17 Old 12-09-2016, 04:21 AM Thread Starter
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Me, with the face. Why?

My throttle body spacer finally came in the mail so I was eager to get it installed yesterday. I was initially all like

What should've been a 30 minute job took a little over an hour!

Well, I started by removing the tube between the throttle body and air filter housing. Then I got a little surprise as I wasn't expecting one of the hoses going to the throttle body to have antifreeze in it. There are two threaded studs with flanged nuts fastening the top of the throttle body and 2 bolts on the bottom. All of which I was able to remove fairly easily.

*However* and for some reason, the threaded hole for the stud on the radiator-side, would not allow the new bolt to thread itself into the hole. The stud I just removed went in fine. New bolt, not so much. The new bolt fit the other three holes without a problem. I put some anti-seize on the stud, screwed it in, removed it, but that bolt did NOT want to go in the hole.

So at the risk of cross-threading a new bolt in that one hole (NONE of the bolts would go in it), I decided to just put everything back together and try again another time. I put the stud back in but then the other stud did NOT want to go into its hole! Now, I actually started to feel queasy because if this stupid hole DID become cross-threaded, *I* would be screwed since I didn't have a tap and die kit and, *AND* my wife would chew me the hell out. I was on the verge of panicking but found a spring tool I had to scrape the threads a little bit to help clear them of anything which may have been misguiding the thread alignment. After some muted cursing, I was able to get the other stud in but now I definitely don't want to take it out again!

Luckily, I was able to get it sorted out and everything put back together. Only now, I'm stuck with this throttle body spacer that I'm wary of trying to reinstall.

If anyone has some good advice on taking one more stab at installing it, I'd welcome your feedback.

Otherwise, I have a "used" P2R Throttle Body Spacer (red) and 2 gaskets which I would sell to a good home

I'm just annoyed because this should've been a quick install but there are these things which come up, I guess. Especially when steel and aluminum parts are matched together.

Anyway, I'm not too disheartened because I have an ATLP J-pipe in my near future which I'm confident will be accomplished with glee ^_^



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post #2 of 17 Old 12-12-2016, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
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Well, I did some research on how to repair stripped threads and equipped myself with a thread repair kit that I picked up at Advance just down the street from me. I also contacted Mark at Throwdown Performance for his advice on my dilemma. He didn't outright endorse any particular thread repair kit but his words of encouragement were more than helpful and very appreciative!

With the back-up tools in hand and Mark's words of wisdom, I again took to the task of getting my P2R Throttle Body spacer installed with greater confidence. I removed the battery and air filter housing in the event I had to drill out any holes to accommodate the new bolts for the spacer and would need the additional room to do so.

Well, I'm happy to report that it was practically drama-free. I went ahead and cleaned the throttle body with some throttle body cleaner since I noticed how dirty it was when I had it off last time. In fact, I had also planned on draining and filling the auto-transmission fluid so having all the stuff out of the way of transmission fill bolt hole helped as well.

Thanks again, Mark! Now, if only you had that ATLP J-pipe in stock for Christmas ^_^

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  • ATLP J-Pipe
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  • K&N Drop-In Filter
  • Megan Racing Test Pipe
  • RV6 High-Flow Pre-Cats
  • P2R Throttle Body Spacer
    ---
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  • Progress 22mm Rear Sway Bar
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post #3 of 17 Old 12-12-2016, 06:33 AM
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dang that is one clean engine bay.. you must clean it regularly; mines isn't as clean as yours.
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post #4 of 17 Old 12-12-2016, 09:29 AM
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I thought these TB spacers don't do anything...What benefits did you see after installing it?

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post #5 of 17 Old 12-12-2016, 10:06 AM
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hook up a nitrous injector to that TB spacer

Peace Out SuckA!!!!
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post #6 of 17 Old 12-12-2016, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruscki24 View Post
dang that is one clean engine bay.. you must clean it regularly; mines isn't as clean as yours.
haha, thanks! Well, I do probably clean it a bit more than necessary. ^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRangerZr1 View Post
I thought these TB spacers don't do anything...What benefits did you see after installing it?
It's definitely doing something! I have an automatic so, for one, when I mash the gas pedal, the throttle response is much better to induce downshifting. This may also be due to when I cleaned the throttle body as well, so that's not as definitive a metric to use.

But it's pulling a bit stronger in the low to mid-range. It's not a neck-snapping improvement, mind you, but feels like a few more horsepower has been added.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thisaznboi88 View Post
hook up a nitrous injector to that TB spacer
Yeah, I'm more like set it and forget it. I'm done with messing that spacer lol


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  • ATLP J-Pipe
  • Custom Intake
  • K&N Drop-In Filter
  • Megan Racing Test Pipe
  • RV6 High-Flow Pre-Cats
  • P2R Throttle Body Spacer
    ---
  • Megan Racing EZII Coilovers
  • Progress 22mm Rear Sway Bar
  • SPC Performance Rear Camber Arms
    ---
  • 245/35-20 Goodyear Eagle Sport A/S
  • 20 x 8.5 Advanti Racing Hybris Wheels
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post #7 of 17 Old 12-12-2016, 10:37 PM
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Thanks for sharing the experience!

Throttle body spacers are a bit of snake oil IMO, though. If you don't have dyno numbers, it can easily be Placebo effect. I will probably clean my throttle body when it gets warmer, but until someone can provide some dyno numbers with and without the throttle body spacer, I will not get them.

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post #8 of 17 Old 12-13-2016, 06:34 AM
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If you go on afe website. They have a Dyno for our 3.5 accord. And I was surprised. So I bought one. I couldn't really tell a difference I'm not going to lie, but you cannot feel 8 hp and 7 tq increase.

The p2r spacer is literally just a spacer with nothing special about it.

If you look at the afe spacer it's miles different and is incredibly well made.

When I swapped over to the 37 manifold and throttle body I decided to not put it on because it's just a little too small and probably would not be beneficial. So I decided to throw it on my brothers 08 tls with the 3.5 and he loves it.

It takes no more than 30 mins all in to get the throttle body off, studs removed and tb spacer installed.

08 EX-L V6/6
Performance : Dyno Tuned Ktuner, Fastline ss clutch line & powerlinks, P2R gaskets, EBC green pads, XLR8 ss brake lines, Progress 22mm rsb, HSD coilovers, Blox 15mm rear spacers,
Power : RV6 hfpc, XLR8 V2 j-pipe, Injen cai, Unorthodox pulley, P2R pnp runners Magnaflow cbe, tl sh awd tb, j37 manifold
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post #9 of 17 Old 12-13-2016, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08 v6/6 View Post
If you go on afe website. They have a Dyno for our 3.5 accord. And I was surprised. So I bought one. I couldn't really tell a difference I'm not going to lie, but you cannot feel 8 hp and 7 tq increase.

The p2r spacer is literally just a spacer with nothing special about it.

If you look at the afe spacer it's miles different and is incredibly well made.

When I swapped over to the 37 manifold and throttle body I decided to not put it on because it's just a little too small and probably would not be beneficial. So I decided to throw it on my brothers 08 tls with the 3.5 and he loves it.

It takes no more than 30 mins all in to get the throttle body off, studs removed and tb spacer installed.
I am not sure if(read:I don't think) those dyno sheets made by people selling the spacers can be trusted(Obvious bias). Butt dyno is well... butt dyno. You know how it works, Placebo effects, psychological gain and all that.

I have seen a video where someone put it on and said there is an increase, but the guy never actually showed the dyno sheet. Most the other sites that did show them, they don't see any HP/torque gain or a very minimal one. Not worth $100 IMO.

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post #10 of 17 Old 12-13-2016, 11:25 AM
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I rather get the TB thermal gaskets, that really does keep the IAT and the intake tubing cooler.

IMO, I think people say the TB spacer does something because it just cost them $100 and its just something in your head that tells you your vtec kicks in harder. I need REAL before and after dyno runs to confirm the HP/TQ gains. Some people also say that the company tunes the ECU after they put in the TB spacer which shows the higher numbers.

Now who TF is gonna pay $200 for the dyno runs just to see if this TB spacer does work?

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post #11 of 17 Old 12-15-2016, 07:07 AM
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Well I believe that Dyno with the 3.5 accord is real.

Because if you look at other tb spacers many of them they do not claim to make a certain amount of power and they do not have a Dyno comparison.

So it would make sense that Dyno is legit.

The reason there is a Dyno is because of the compatibility of that throttle body spacer. It can go on about 10 different vehicles so it's worth it for them to get some proof to make the sales.

But whatever, it is what you believe at the end of the day.

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post #12 of 17 Old 12-15-2016, 01:47 PM
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For Hondas, throttle body spacers are horse crap. Any website information that states they increase volume and therefore increase power is total ignorance.

Some spacers have grooves that spiral the air as the air moves through it. It LOW rpm that can improve air turbulence, which is good, and increase low-end torque. But that same spiral effect DRAMATICALLY increases air resistance at high rpm and hurts high-rpm torque.

There is a much more important element at work here, manifold resonance – as in its frequency. When engineers design the manifold they “tune it” to maximize torque at a given rpm. Tuning is not for amateurs! Air moves quickly through the intake manifold toward the intake valves. As those valves close with each rpm, all that moving air compresses and literally bounces off the closed valves. It creates a pressure wave that reflects all the way back to the throttle body valve, hits it, and bounces back again toward the intake valves. If this reflecting pressure wave arrives at the intake valves during the short time they are open, it helps charge the combustion chamber. It actually forces air into the cylinder. It has a supercharging effect.

The timing of this reflected pressure wave is everything. The timing is a DIRECT function of the length and shape of the intake manifold. The longer the intake manifold, the longer it will take to reflect - it must travel a greater distance. Honda’s brilliant engineers are extremely well educated on this subject and purposely designed the manifold to have an exact length that times the frequency of the reflective pulse.

What do think happens when you add an intake spacer? You increase the length of the manifold. What does that do? It changes the frequency of this reflective wave pulse. It makes it longer. That may help low end torque but hurts mid and high rpm torque. The intake spacer messes with the “tune.”

Why would anyone want to screw with that? Maybe if you only drive at low rpm, as in VERY slowly. But adding a spacer stands in COMPLETE opposition to anyone interested in going faster. Why? Because going faster implies flooring your car and using high-rpm, which is the exact rpm range the spacer hurts.

And think about it, if adding an inch of length to the manifold increased power and improved fuel economy, don’t you think every car manufacturer would make that standard? For anyone to believe a spacer increases power needs to learn a lot more about how engines work. Maybe a spacer will work for a pickup truck motor that relies on low end torque. But a high rpm Honda engine? Heck no. Wasted money.
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post #13 of 17 Old 12-15-2016, 08:04 PM
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Baldeagle Thank you for your detailed explanation! I haven't seen a lot of people trying to explain in detail why they don't work, so that's definitely very enlightening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 08 v6/6 View Post
Well I believe that Dyno with the 3.5 accord is real.

Because if you look at other tb spacers many of them they do not claim to make a certain amount of power and they do not have a Dyno comparison.

So it would make sense that Dyno is legit.
Back in the days, tobacco companies tell people tobaccos are not bad/good for your health!



If the statement about something is made by an interested party/person(like someone selling it), the statement is less credible. Doesn't mean they can't be true, just less likely so.

Also, the idea of a throttle body spacer improving performance significantly sounds too good to be true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldeagle View Post
And think about it, if adding an inch of length to the manifold increased power and improved fuel economy, don’t you think every car manufacturer would make that standard?
If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

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post #14 of 17 Old 12-16-2016, 03:59 AM
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And to build on what you wrote UnknownJinX, AFE’s dyno chart is a classic example of a cheap sales tactic. The tests were done three months apart. How long does it take to install a TB spacer? 20 minutes? If their intent were to actually evaluate the spacer, doesn’t it make sense they would test the spacer on the same day, within the same hour? Identical conditions? With three months apart, they probably tested the “base” car on winter gas and the TB spacer car on summer gas and attributed the gain to the spacer. And what happened at 4,300 rpm on the “base” car's dyno? Something was off on that run. And don’t blame it on VTEC because that car has none. And who knows, maybe AFE cleaned the TB for the spacer test too. It’s all cheap marketing and borderline lying just to sell a product.

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post #15 of 17 Old 12-16-2016, 04:36 AM Thread Starter
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And think about it, if adding an inch of length to the manifold increased power and improved fuel economy, don’t you think every car manufacturer would make that standard?
No, for the same reason that every car isn't turbocharged and comes from the factory with coilovers. But, that's why there's a thriving aftermarket industry. To "mess" with the factory tuning.

Your explanation on the fluid dynamics of the intake system is intriguing. With that said, this modification of adding a throttle body spacer, is only part of my grand design. So, yes, I will agree with you that it has had an affect on the overall performance. Whether that affect is negative or positive still remains to be seen but will say that "something" has happened. I'm a firm believer in the scientific method and am collecting data on a regular basis to determine how my modifications improve or negate performance.

This data is kept in my car journal which I add to at every fill-up. I have religiously documented my mileage and gas consumption. It's the only thing I have really but it's a source where I can graph these changes to quantify the data. Just looking at my past entries to my journal, I have noticed a slight uptick in the range I've acquired and can conclude that the weather, being a few degrees cooler, has probably had a role in performance. But, there's a caveat, in the past week I have also stood on the accelerator more than normal and was still able to get over 400 miles on a tank of gas. For my setup with the wheels/tires that I have, that's actually pretty high considering some of the city driving I had to do. I filled up yesterday and need to test this tank of gas so I'll try to use my cruise control more frequently.

Unfortunately, I have maybe another week or so between modifications since I'm planning on adding an ATLP J-pipe which allows me to keep the 3rd catalytic converter and I know that *will* conclusively improve performance. But I also typically have 5 days between fill ups since I work 50+ miles away and only have this time to see how this throttle body spacer has affected anything.

This will be a challenge because, as you mentioned, the resonance (and sound) it makes now when I step on it is like a siren singing to Homer. It's quite intoxicating but I must resist, for science ^_^



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  • ATLP J-Pipe
  • Custom Intake
  • K&N Drop-In Filter
  • Megan Racing Test Pipe
  • RV6 High-Flow Pre-Cats
  • P2R Throttle Body Spacer
    ---
  • Megan Racing EZII Coilovers
  • Progress 22mm Rear Sway Bar
  • SPC Performance Rear Camber Arms
    ---
  • 245/35-20 Goodyear Eagle Sport A/S
  • 20 x 8.5 Advanti Racing Hybris Wheels
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