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post #1 of 31 Old 02-25-2015, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Question Can Certain Tire Shine Products Dry Rot Tires?

Not to long ago I bought new tires. They are great all season tires and i would prefer them to anyone who is searching for some and wouldnt mind spending a few hundred dollars more. They are the Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus. In a few months i will be detailing my car and i had a question about tire shine products. I didnt apply any to my new tires yet. I usually use meguiars tire endurance gel but i heard some tire shines can dry rot tires. This one in particular contains petroleum distilliates and i heard that isnt good and will speed up dry rotting the tires. Does anyone have any input on this? or what tire shine wont cause dry rotting. What would you guys/girls prefer?

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post #2 of 31 Old 02-25-2015, 01:59 PM
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Me? I don't like to put chemicals in my body or on my tires.

Big discussion on Bob is the Oil Guy forums about tire shine.


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post #3 of 31 Old 02-25-2015, 06:52 PM
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As a polymers guy, I can take a stab at this.

Tire dry rot is the falling apart (degradation) of the rubber molecules over time. There are basically two things that attack the molecules - UV radiation (read sunlight) and oxygen, including an especially chemically active form of oxygen called ozone. You have probably heard of ozone because of its role as a smog-forming air pollutant, or as a nonchlorine alternative to bleach. Both of those effects occur because ozone is incredibly reactive compared to good ol' regular oxygen.

Tire shine probably provides a little protection against both UV and oxygen by acting as a barrier, but not all that much. Some tire shines may contain UV absorbers and/or antioxidants. The "petroleum distillate" is an ordinary solvent, like paint thinner. It won't dissolve a tire, but it can swell the rubber, and if left on the tire for long periods of time, could conceivably dissolve some of the stabilizers (UV stabilizers, antioxidants and antiozonants) out of the tire. Fairly unlikely, though. It's a little like saying an artificial sweetener causes cancer - if you're a lab rat who drinks 500 times its body weight in Diet Dr. Pepper daily.

On balance, I would think tire shine products help more than hurt. Two things I do know:

1. Replace a tire if it's at least six years old - regardless of miles - because of degradation. Here's how to read the age of a tire:



2. Keep your tires away from grinders, which can generate rather large amounts of both UV and ozone, dramatically shortening the life of a nearby tire.

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Last edited by reframmellator; 03-01-2015 at 08:48 AM. Reason: Calrity
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post #4 of 31 Old 02-26-2015, 01:25 AM
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I detail on the side and I would never use a spray shine, I use and would recommend
It doesn't sling, keeps a nice dark/wet shine, and I my experience does a good job protecting from UV and preventing cracks.

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post #5 of 31 Old 02-28-2015, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by heathmc View Post
I detail on the side and I would never use a spray shine, I use and would recommend
It doesn't sling, keeps a nice dark/wet shine, and I my experience does a good job protecting from UV and preventing cracks.
+1. Optimum is great stuff!

I'll add to the discussion the following:

All solvent/petroleum based tire shine products have the potential to be and are harmful to the tire. The chemicals in these types of products replace the natural moisture in the material with oil based crap and eventually "dry" the tire out. Use ArmorAll exclusively on your tires for a couple of years. You'll have noticeable cracks appearing after about a year and they'll be toast after 2.

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post #6 of 31 Old 03-01-2015, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Steve View Post

I'll add to the discussion the following:

All solvent/petroleum based tire shine products have the potential to be and are harmful to the tire. The chemicals in these types of products replace the natural moisture in the material with oil based crap and eventually "dry" the tire out. Use ArmorAll exclusively on your tires for a couple of years. You'll have noticeable cracks appearing after about a year and they'll be toast after 2.
Tires don't contain any more than a few hundredths of a percent moisture, if that much, and moisture contributes zero to the properties of a tire. Nor do they contain plasticizers. Depending on the tire, the rubber in it can be anywhere from 70-98% oil-based crap. The "drying" process you refer to is the degradation I mentioned previously. ArmorAll is an emulsion-based product containing silicone, and the emulsifiers in some of those emulsion-based products are pretty good at encouraging stabilizers to come out of the matrix faster than they would otherwise. (An emulsifier is essentially a highly engineered soap/detergent. What happens to the grease in your frying pan when you wash it with soap and water? Same thing can happen to oil-based stuff added to the rubber compound. Or not, depending on the emulsifier chosen, in the same way that some detergents are much better than others at deep-cleaning clothes to get oil stains out.) I'm sure many of you have seen your tires turn brownish. That's not the rubber degrading - it's a stabilizer blooming to the tire surface. Eventually, when the the stabilizer runs out, tire degradation accelerates. Some emulsifiers can help speed up that process, as well as the normal process in which time, temperature and the environment cause rubber to crack.

I'm not saying ArmorAll does or does not accelerate cracking, but it uses technology that can do either, depending upon the specific system employed.

"Communication isn't what you say. It's what they hear." - Red Auerbach

2015 EX-L V6, Modern Steel/Black
2007 SE I4 5AT, Cool Blue, 77k

Also in the family:

2009 TSX, navy, auto
2015 Hyundai Santa Fe Ltd
2015 Crosstour V6, black
2013 Civic EX, gray
2014 Honda HRX217 (2)

Departed:
2004 EX I4 5MT, Desert Mist, 175,552
2001 Accord EX I4 5MT, Satin Silver, oil slick at 86K
1999 EX-LV, Heather Mist, 146,567
1994 Accord LX I4 5 MT ABS, Malachite Green, 285k
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post #7 of 31 Old 03-01-2015, 09:58 AM
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I've used armorall before and I wouldn't say it destroyed my tires, but I would like to find something that worked better (lasts longer, attracts less dirt). I've also tried a few others that you can find on the shelf at local stores. I want my tires to look new, but not like I sprayed them with high gloss black paint (yuk). What can I use to keep the tires looking new, without hurting them? I would rather not have to order a tire care product online.

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post #8 of 31 Old 03-01-2015, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reframmellator View Post
Tires don't contain any more than a few hundredths of a percent moisture, if that much, and moisture contributes zero to the properties of a tire. Nor do they contain plasticizers. Depending on the tire, the rubber in it can be anywhere from 70-98% oil-based crap. The "drying" process you refer to is the degradation I mentioned previously. ArmorAll is an emulsion-based product containing silicone, and the emulsifiers in some of those emulsion-based products are pretty good at encouraging stabilizers to come out of the matrix faster than they would otherwise. (An emulsifier is essentially a highly engineered soap/detergent. What happens to the grease in your frying pan when you wash it with soap and water? Same thing can happen to oil-based stuff added to the rubber compound. Or not, depending on the emulsifier chosen, in the same way that some detergents are much better than others at deep-cleaning clothes to get oil stains out.) I'm sure many of you have seen your tires turn brownish. That's not the rubber degrading - it's a stabilizer blooming to the tire surface. Eventually, when the the stabilizer runs out, tire degradation accelerates. Some emulsifiers can help speed up that process, as well as the normal process in which time, temperature and the environment cause rubber to crack.

I'm not saying ArmorAll does or does not accelerate cracking, but it uses technology that can do either, depending upon the specific system employed.
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The analogy I gave in my reply above is what I learned from other detailers along the way many years ago. Good to learn the truth about that fable. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLCKFLSH View Post
I've used armorall before and I wouldn't say it destroyed my tires, but I would like to find something that worked better (lasts longer, attracts less dirt). I've also tried a few others that you can find on the shelf at local stores. I want my tires to look new, but not like I sprayed them with high gloss black paint (yuk). What can I use to keep the tires looking new, without hurting them? I would rather not have to order a tire care product online.
The largest factor that plays into how good a tire looks before any kind or type of dressing is applied is how thorough you are at cleaning the tire. I have many customers who don't want any tire dressing applied to their tires but they do expect them to look uniformly black and as new as possible. Luckily, I clean all tires the same way regardless of whether or not dressing is applied - and it's no walk in the park to achieve that level of clean, especially if it's the first time I'm doing the car and it's had many applications applied to it without being stripped.

To get them clean - and I mean so clean you can wipe them with a white towel and not have any black marks on it - you have to start with a strong enough cleaner that will eat through and dissolve everything that's on the tire... brake dust, grease, oils, silicone tire dressings, etc. Sometimes it takes more than one cleaning to achieve that. I use a heavy duty degreaser/surfactant, a medium bristle bristle brush and a bucket of hot water rich with Dawn dish soap. That combination usually only takes one treatment to get them clean.
Once the tire is that clean, it only takes a small amount of any drerssing to achieve the results desired. It's when there's still residue and other contaminants remaining on the tires when you can't get any uniformity and it takes more product.

To get the look you're wanting, I recommend using 303 Aerospace Vinyl and Rubber Protectant. It leaves no greasy/shiny look but it provides the best protection available for rubber and vinyl via its UV blockers. It creates a matte finish that can be adjusted by how much you apply. It's widely available and very reasonable.



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post #9 of 31 Old 03-01-2015, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLCKFLSH View Post
I've used armorall before and I wouldn't say it destroyed my tires, but I would like to find something that worked better (lasts longer, attracts less dirt). I've also tried a few others that you can find on the shelf at local stores. I want my tires to look new, but not like I sprayed them with high gloss black paint (yuk). What can I use to keep the tires looking new, without hurting them? I would rather not have to order a tire care product online.
ArmorAll has had a bad rep. since back in my day for having a awesome shine but only for a few days and allegedly causing cracking of parts

theres a lot better Tire Car products in your local stores and the one i've used for many years is Black Magic Tire Wet. it lasts a long time

Meguiars Hot Shine in spray can formula is good too

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post #10 of 31 Old 03-01-2015, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 2i2dk1ny2i3 View Post
ArmorAll has had a bad rep. since back in my day for having a awesome shine but only for a few days and allegedly causing cracking of parts

theres a lot better Tire Car products in your local stores and the one i've used for many years is Black Magic Tire Wet. it lasts a long time

Meguiars Hot Shine in spray can formula is good too
He doesn't want them shiny he wants them clean and natural looking.

You mentioned how AA only lasted a couple of days. The opposite of that is Meg's Endurance Gel. As far as I know, (and I'm fairly certain I'm correct) it's currently the longest lasting dressing on the planet. The down side to that is it's a BITCH to remove! And it slings like a mutha if you don't go easy with it and give it time to gel before driving. I like it for its last-ability and the initial uber-shiny look mellows out after a day or so and leaves the tire looking jet black with a nice satin finish for weeks.

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post #11 of 31 Old 03-01-2015, 06:30 PM
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How long do you let a dressing dry before driving it? I have to admit I've never used any dressing. I just get the wheels as clean as possible and leave them... but if I could get a non-greasy sheen, I might consider it.

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post #12 of 31 Old 03-02-2015, 03:00 AM
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How long do you let a dressing dry before driving it? I have to admit I've never used any dressing. I just get the wheels as clean as possible and leave them... but if I could get a non-greasy sheen, I might consider it.
There are as many tire dressings as there are brands of tires pretty much. Most of the over-the-counter products that you find at the regular stores is a thick, oily liquid that you apply with a sponge or a rag and until it gels (and even after with some) it will sling itself off the tire and onto the paint the first time you drive the car.
There isn't really a set amount of time to wait, it's more being able to look at the tire and recognize if it's still 'runny" for lack of a better term.
The aerosol versions of these products don't sling anywhere close to the amount the liquids and gels do.
However.....
The pro-line dressings used by detailers don't sling, dry exponentially quicker, last longer (in most cases) and some even allow you to regulate how shiny or matte the end result is just by how much you wipe off after wiping it on.
The two brands that are arguably the best in terms of what I listted above are Opti-Bond Tire Gel by Optimum car care products and Pinnacle Black Onyx Tire Gel. The latter is my favorite for a couple of reasons. First, the shine builds as you add more product. If you like a matte look, only apply one coat. If you like a mirror, wet, uber-ridiculous-shiny tire, load it on. As long as you don't overdo the thickness of a single coat, it won't sling. It lasts a long, long time and finally it smells awesome - like candy!

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SuperBrite Interior LED Kit
Eagle Alloys Chrome 192's
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post #13 of 31 Old 03-02-2015, 02:19 PM
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I've always applied it with a sponge, and I don't let it drip at all. I never sprayed the stuff directly on the tire because I didn't want the stuff on the wheels or paint. So, I've never had a problem with the stuff flying off the tires. Spraying the stuff directly on the tire, without wiping the excess off, seems idiotic to me.

The only place in my area that seems to have the 303 stuff is a Boat/Marine store, and I would have to order it. Sure would be nice if there was something similar sold at regular stores. Thinking about the Maguiar's endurance stuff, but I don't want my tires to shine at all.

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post #14 of 31 Old 03-02-2015, 03:14 PM
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Coach Steve wrote:

Quote:
Consider me schooled!
Likewise, here! One of the great things about this forum is the collection of knowledge that is freely shared. I've learned a bunch about tire dressings in this thread.

"Communication isn't what you say. It's what they hear." - Red Auerbach

2015 EX-L V6, Modern Steel/Black
2007 SE I4 5AT, Cool Blue, 77k

Also in the family:

2009 TSX, navy, auto
2015 Hyundai Santa Fe Ltd
2015 Crosstour V6, black
2013 Civic EX, gray
2014 Honda HRX217 (2)

Departed:
2004 EX I4 5MT, Desert Mist, 175,552
2001 Accord EX I4 5MT, Satin Silver, oil slick at 86K
1999 EX-LV, Heather Mist, 146,567
1994 Accord LX I4 5 MT ABS, Malachite Green, 285k
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post #15 of 31 Old 03-02-2015, 04:35 PM
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I never really thought about detailing until I joined this forum... just washed and waxed with stuff I picked up at the auto store. I've never been one for the wet look, so Lexol rather than Armorall, etc and Meguiar's gold class.

I learn something new here every day.


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