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post #16 of 33 Old 03-16-2011, 10:48 PM
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Just my opinion...the big aluminum tube does absorb the heat in the engine bay and transmit that into the engine = bad
The stock air box does not absorb the heat and keeps the air cooler. Engines like cool dense air (we all know that)

To be completely honest our N/A engines can only breathe in so much air, which is only restricted by what the filter can flow. Most times replacing the stock filter with a K&N stock style replacement will net the same gain as a expen$ive aftermarket intake.
You won't really "ram" jack diddley into the engine through a 3" tube - there is too much volume to fill. I have 2 turbo cars as well and those have a LARGE air filter in the intake side that flows enough air to safely run at 25 psi, and only need 2.5 inch piping into the intake.

I prefer the noise of the filter ****ing air (like a big four barrel opening the secondaries on a V8) so instead of paying out lots of cash I installed a K&N I had laying around on the end of my stock rubber intake tube....still have the vacuum hook ups, no heat transfer, not worried too much about the water issue.

Truth be told, we don't know if they do increase HP or not, unless you hook it to a dyno before and after - thats the only way to know. Does it sound like it?...sure - is it in our heads?...maybe

Get in, tach it up, let it fly and see if your S.O.T.P. Dyno says you got a gain, thats the most fun anyway

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post #17 of 33 Old 03-16-2011, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by StreetLethal100 View Post
Why should we use aftermarket intakes?

The Honda engineers didnt just throw a bunch of random tubing into the car and call it done. They computer analyzed how the air flow comes into the engine and tuned it to match the engines needs.

There is a giant reservoir of cold air in the fender and its all water proof.

Can an after market intake really help that much? If it did, why wouldn't the designers just put an aluminum intake in the car to start if it supposedly gets better gas mileage and performance.

Aluminum can disperse heat very well but it can also absorb heat just as fast. I had an intake in my subaru and when I opened the hood after driving, it would be super hot. How in the world can that be any better then the plastic tubing it has now?

What are you thoughts?
I noticed the same thing to. For example, on my friends Toyota Camry, his air intake is a rectangular shaped hole that sits right above the radiator where you would first see when you crack the hood. It sit up top while Hondas is totally hidden and yet it somehow pulls air through the wheel well? Sometimes I am sooo tempted to popping in an Ingen RAI OR CAI which, imo might take things to another level but alas, everyone has to wait to pass the 6 year 60 thou powertrain warranty and us folks with the extended have to elapse 100k before major mods can be had on em.. This is unwirtten DA rule #1 or numero uno for Press 2 ppl.

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post #18 of 33 Old 03-17-2011, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovemy06VtecV6 View Post
I noticed the same thing to. For example, on my friends Toyota Camry, his air intake is a rectangular shaped hole that sits right above the radiator where you would first see when you crack the hood. It sit up top while Hondas is totally hidden and yet it somehow pulls air through the wheel well? Sometimes I am sooo tempted to popping in an Ingen RAI OR CAI which, imo might take things to another level but alas, everyone has to wait to pass the 6 year 60 thou powertrain warranty and us folks with the extended have to elapse 100k before major mods can be had on em.. This is unwirtten DA rule #1 or numero uno for Press 2 ppl.
You can install an intake anytime you want. As long as the intake doesn't cause the problem (taking in water, pieces of the filter breaking off and being drawn into the engine, damaging the MAF during install, causing a CEL, etc) then there are no worries about the warranty. If any of those happen it doesn't really matter if you're in or out of warranty, you're going to be paying the repair bill either way. There's plenty of people with Honda Care and intakes, myself included.

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post #19 of 33 Old 03-27-2011, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetLethal100 View Post
Why should we use aftermarket intakes?

The Honda engineers didnt just throw a bunch of random tubing into the car and call it done. They computer analyzed how the air flow comes into the engine and tuned it to match the engines needs.

++++The Honda engineers have to conform to manufacturing costs, quietness, and customer base. Accords are not factory hot rods. However they will respond to more cold air in and more exhaust out. The stock airbox is restrictive causing the engine to work harder to draw air in. A CAI along with exhaust mods are the two very best things to do to improve power and mileage, if you dont mind more noise ( I love it!)

There is a giant reservoir of cold air in the fender and its all water proof.

Can an after market intake really help that much? If it did, why wouldn't the designers just put an aluminum intake in the car to start if it supposedly gets better gas mileage and performance.

++++Read above... The stock V6 downpipe crimps down at the merge of the two pipes. It is amasingly restrictive. I added RV6 3rd gen down pipe which is long tube smooth merging beautiful piece which is custom made for the V6 & CL's.
This mod with the CAI totally changed the performance and drivability of the car. (on Dyno +30 ft lbs torque 3000 rpm on my friends car)

Aluminum can disperse heat very well but it can also absorb heat just as fast. I had an intake in my subaru and when I opened the hood after driving, it would be super hot. How in the world can that be any better then the plastic tubing it has now?

++++My CAI gets its air in from a high flow filter sitting behind the fenders open grill, not from near the engine.

What are you thoughts?
++++Do it!
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post #20 of 33 Old 03-27-2011, 05:09 PM
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What I don't like about after market intake (CAI and SRI) is that they can affect the airflow enough to fool the MAF and let the engine run lean and potentially hurt it on the long term. Which is diferent than say, a exhaust manifold and full intake. At least with those, the ECU is still measuring the proper amount of air in.

The most restrictive part of any intake is the MAF itself.
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post #21 of 33 Old 03-27-2011, 07:10 PM
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What I don't like about after market intake (CAI and SRI) is that they can affect the airflow enough to fool the MAF and let the engine run lean and potentially hurt it on the long term. Which is diferent than say, a exhaust manifold and full intake. At least with those, the ECU is still measuring the proper amount of air in.

The most restrictive part of any intake is the MAF itself.
Honda's ECU is very smart! You will NOT run lean in a late model Honda by changing intake & exhaust. Many many very talented mechanics and owners have run these units without any fuel/air ratio issues. Dyno's galore measuring among other things fuel/air ratio have proven time and time again. Forced induction is another matter and usually requires a piggyback controller.

Not to worry,...have fun!!
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post #22 of 33 Old 03-28-2011, 04:46 AM
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I was quoting an engineer buddy who's an engine calibrator for the EOM industry.

He's the one programming the ECU that aftermarket guy hope will compensate for their upgrades. In normal operation, the A/F ratio will be kept. But what about in transition to WOT when the ECU goes into open loop ? These maps don't use the O2 signals.

I'm not saying any given engine will have problems. It's only to inform people who love their cars and want to keep them in good shape that intake modifications are not as safe as other mods.
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post #23 of 33 Old 02-04-2015, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Lets spark this up again shall we:

So I ended up looking into the Intakes and dyno graphs. Long story short, I went with an Injen CAI. When the car is at WOT and you have a SRI, you can literally suck the entire engine bay worth of hot air in within seconds (plus some). A CAI will at least draw from inside the cool fender and from the ground.

My question lies still in the materials. If aluminum is so amazing in aftermarket intakes, why wouldn't the factory use aluminum tubing with the same overall design?

My thoughts are that Aluminum heats just as fast as it cools. So when your on the highway getting cool air, the aluminum stays cool, but when you are sitting in traffic the intake can get super hot and actually hinder performance (causing heat soak).

So do you think it would help to add home heating pipe insulation around the intake with aluminum tape? Would it repel the engine heat while keeping the intake cool?

But on the other hand, would the heat from the engine block radiate into the intake and then be held due to the insulation?

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post #24 of 33 Old 02-04-2015, 06:19 PM
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The truth is, and this includes me, 1 out of 1000 has actually dynoed their ride after installing some fancy intake set up be it ram or cold air. Sound better? Mine did but that is up to the individual. Faster? Your mind thinks so but there's no way you can prove it without extensive testing. Many times it is actually slower than stock.

Is it worth it? NO, it is not unless you have the means to monitor a .005 second gain or loss in the 1/4 mile or have access to a dyno for free. I spent the money the same as hundreds of others here and it was pissed off and wasted if they will admit it or not. I admit it.
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post #25 of 33 Old 02-21-2015, 10:06 AM
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Intakes are useless without a proper ECU tune. They do sound nice and more aggressive I had used intakes in all my vehicles for that purpose and I would always get my car tuned. Responsiveness out of the box is slightly better with a CAI but other than that you're not getting much. I prefer plastic setups vs the Aluminum CAI yes they look bettter but they also get warmer quicker. During the summer your car will feel slower period unless you get a tune and buy the RIGHT cai.

Honda has government specifications to follow and also two different markets to sell cars to (Young and Old people). I will say the newer Honda vehicles are most definitely designed for better fuel mileage and performance so all these new CAI will be completely useless unless you do a full Intake/exhaust swap with a proper ECU tune. Its not a simple game of just buying an intake and exhaust. Do your research.
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post #26 of 33 Old 04-29-2015, 10:03 AM
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Personally, I think the REAL answer is somewhere in between.

Check this thread / post:

Cournot's dyno adventures - '15 6-6

Just cracking open the factory airbox and propping to open netted 13 WHEEL HP and 12 WHEEL TQ....

That's nothing to sneeze at.

While I'm sure Honda's engineers put plenty of thought and education into the airbox in the Accord - keep in mind their ENTIRE job is compromise.....

Does it make more power? Great....could it possibly rely in more warranty service calls? Get rid of it.

I have a good friend who worked for GM, Toyota and BMW as a production / design engineer.

Most people would never believe how many final production decisions are made by the accounting department to save a few cents even on the final vehicle.

Fact - the vast majority of people that buy "normal" automobiles are just looking to get to point A to point B in comfort / style.


As for aftermarket intakes causing lean conditions on a modern EFI engine....I don't see it happening.

I'm going to assume that Honda's programming / software / hardware is much better than the late 80's early 90's GM EFI systems I had a lot of experience with....those never ran lean at WOT or closed loop with the addition of intakes.

Manufacturers usually default towards RICH air/fuel mixtures when the system is in open loop....lean conditions are much more dangerous and would likely result in more warranty problems.
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post #27 of 33 Old 05-15-2015, 07:20 PM
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For what it's worth, most aftermarket intakes are little more than flashy engine dressing. I'm not going to single out any brands, but here is the design philosophy of a lot of these manufacturers:

First, calculate the CFM requirement of the engine. You know, displacement (inches) x redline RPM (they may even go so far as to factor in estimated volumetric efficiency,) divided by 3,456.

Second, take that calculation and build a tube that is at least big enough to accommodate that much CFM and somehow get it to fit under the hood.

Third, implement flashy marketing campaign that will excite ignorant car enthusiasts.

That's as far as most of them go. There are a couple brands out there that actually understand the importance of velocity in the intake. I have been very pleased with my Injen Pro Series on my 9th Gen V6 Accord. I am also convinced however that the aluminium tubing does act as a giant heat sink. It would be possible to build a similar intake using composite materials that would insulate the induction air from the heat of the engine bay while still offering improved flow and velocity. Manufacture cost and therefore retail price would be pretty steep though. I'm planning to start working on the idea this fall. I make my living building aftermarket composite aircraft parts so this sort of thing is right up my alley. I saw this thread tonight and thought I might throw some feelers out there to see if this is something that other people might also be interested in. If I ever get if figured out, I would have the tooling and processes ready to produce as many more as I wanted.
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post #28 of 33 Old 05-15-2015, 09:02 PM
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I've been monitoring (real time) IAT (Intake Air Temp) and other inputs on my '11 6/6 since I built / mocked-up my own SRI.

It's been a week of daily driving, in all conditions, with the temp ranging from the mid 50's to 90 degrees. I've compared IAT with the stock setup and the SRI I put together. The difference is negligible - and in fact (as I noted in another thread) the IAT seems to drop faster with the SRI than it does it with the OEM setup.

Temps of course are highest when driving and stopping the engine off and it sits or idling at a stop. IAT consistently dropped as soon as the car started moving with the SRI - the OEM setup dropped as well, it just took it a bit longer.

One thing I learned from tuning MAF systems in the past (GM) is that the maf sensor is designed to compute air flow in a certain range. So common sense says that if you increase the intake size from 3" to 4" that you'd be letting more air in the engine - the MAF may or may not be able to correct for this difference in air flow.

The setup I am working on used "Reducer" plastic tubes to reproduce the OEM internal intake size that directly surrounds the MAF.

While my setup has been called "Ghetto" it apparently worked better out of the box than some other much more expensive options - I've yet to get a CEL with the setup.

I haven't dyno'd the car yet - but from past dyno sessions with other vehicles, I'm not expecting massive HP gains.

While an EFFICIENT tune will certainly gain power, it's not that simple.

What kind of gains are you striving towards? Everyday drive-ability? Then you are looking to improve low-mid range power / torque. I have personally tuned vehicles that picked up a good amount of low to mid-range power - power than can definitely be felt - but they actually saw no increase (sometimes a small decrease) in max HP.

Dyno results are NOT cut and dried. To make a TRUE comparison, you would have to compare a STOCK run, then make a run on the same dyno with the same conditions equipped with your mods. Comparing them ALL the way through the RPM range is the only way to do it.

I remember a cam swap on a EFI small block chevy. We gained 4 MAX HP....pretty crappy for all the work and expense of a cam swap. However, max torque increased and MORE importantly, a much flatter torque curve came out of the swap.

Initially - the car in question ran several tenths slower in the 1/4 mile after the cam swap - but that happened because the car was making more power at the low RPM range and traction became a bigger issue.

It's a sliding scale and it depends on what YOU are looking for in modifying your car.

Honda is NOT in the business of making a performance car. They are striving to do their best to compromise what their research and marketing divisions have deemed most important to potential car buyers. - Reliability - Style - Comfort - Economy. (For example).

I would be willing to bet - if you gave a stock Accord 6/6 to a group of Honda engineers and said "make more power" - the stock intake wouldn't be in place long.

I'll end up about $60 deep into my homemade SRI. If I gain say 5 HP or 5 ft/lbs of torque - I'd be okay with that. But if I had to spend 4 times that amount for an aftermarket intake and I only ended up with say 10HP (being generous for sure) it doesn't seem like much of a bargain to me.
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post #29 of 33 Old 05-15-2015, 10:58 PM
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I installed a cold air intake on my my 08 accord and the piping is made perfectly to fit in the snuggest spot possible, in the drivers side bumper, when I put all the pins back to hold the body I noticed that the spot looks pretty water proof, of course if I don't submerge it but the improvement on the car is pretty noticeablebid I might say so myself, adds a nice deep note to the motor, CAI is the best way to get your accord breathing nice
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post #30 of 33 Old 07-17-2015, 12:17 AM
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unfortunately just getting a CAI you wont see any performance increase the MAF will simply match the proper fuel to Air ratio, not to mention Throttle body will not allow more air since it wasnt changed. Then you have the issue with the MAP which measures Vacuum aka engine load. you cannot simple add "more" air if you do not modify the exhaust to allow the additional air out. not to mention the PCM doing everything it can to remain within Factory Parameters.

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