Brake Caliper pistons alignment & outragous cost to fix - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #1 of 13 Old 06-28-2012, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Brake Caliper pistons alignment & outragous cost to fix

So I took my 2007 Accord SE V6 in for oil change and transmission fluid change. Only because I had a coupon.

Like many on the board I avoid as much as possible ever taking the car to the "stealership"

Anyways I also had a coupon for a free brake inspection. The last time I had the break job was at 34k by my local shop as of course it's far cheaper. To my dismay. The dealer gave the following report in regards to the rear brakes.

"both rear brake caliper pistions were not set right on both sides causing the inner rear brake pads on both sides to wear quicker than the outer. Inner pads are at the minimum 3mm and the outers are at 5mm. Both rear rotors have rust ridges and need to be replaced"

The dealer wants 415.00 to replace rear rotors and pads. WTF


To learn more about how this happened. I did some searching on the boards. I came across this post and wondering if someone can clarify if this is what my local shop failed to do which caused the above described issue.

One thing that should be noted, you need to make sure the slots on the piston are more or less lined up in the original orientation, which yours doesn't look like in picture #12.

This is critical because there are pins on the back of the inboard rear brake pad (the one with the wear indicator tab) that sit in the slots, if the slot doesn't line up with the pins, the inside pad will not sit properly and WILL cause a severly uneven wear of the pad, and will likely cause one side of the steel backing plate to contact the rotor in short time.

I would strongly suggest you recheck this before you grind the inside pad backing plate into the rotor disc.


DIY: How To Replace Rear Brake Pads ('07 Accord)

Any input or advice would be appreciated. I am super disappointed to think my local guy seemingly messed this up.

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post #2 of 13 Old 06-28-2012, 02:56 PM
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doesn it really matter if you have those slot push back? They rotate on their own over time when you wear out the pads don't they? (rear, this is why you need to rotate them back in to get the piston set back in place). Also replace your pin and boot, and pack it with grease. Its only 15 bucks and will save you further problems down the line like seized brakes.


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post #3 of 13 Old 06-28-2012, 05:56 PM
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Can't make a solid statement without seeing a picture of it. There are other reasons that cause one side of the pads to wear out than the other side such as stuck slider pins or pads seized/stuck on the caliper bracket. With regards to the slots on the rear pistons. They are in the pattern of an X. There is a round dot on the rear inside brake pads and a slot in the X must line up with the round dot. Usually you rotate the rear pistons back into the caliper clockwise and get to a position to line up with the round dot. If this is not lined up then the inside pad will move and become crooked inside the caliper bracket when braking. If this happens, then you see a slanted wear surface. Then again, if either the top or bottom slider pin is seized and not moving in and out as it should, you would also get the slanted wear pattern or one side wearing faster than the other.

Rusted ridges on the rotors?? Are they talking about the outside circumference of the rotors that the pads don't touch? If so, those ridges rust out all day. Heck, it rusts in 2 days if you leave your car outside. That's NOT a reason to replace rotors. You replace rotors if they are wearing thin or you feel pulsation while braking. But at this point, you would save money on the labor by just doing both at the same time.

Get a picture and post it here.
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post #4 of 13 Old 06-28-2012, 07:53 PM
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If your description is accurate then I wouldn't place very much trust in your dealer. Inside pads 3mm and outside pads 5mm? Pretty much insignificant. It's not at all that uncommon for the inside pads to wear a little quicker. Or for the opposite. Pads don't always wear exactly even. And that's with everything in good condition. You failed to provide some vital information. How many miles did you get on those pads that you previously replaced at 34,000 miles? Are you suspicious of your local shop because you only got about 5 - 10,000 miles on the pads? TRD is perfectly correct. All rotors rust on the outside edge. It's not a problem in the slightest. Are the "ridges" your dealer referred to located there? You should be able to look at them yourself and see them. I can't comment as to your dealers price presuming that all the work they recommend is needed. I have always done my own brakes. My dad taught me how to do brakes (drums actually!) and I've always done my own.

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post #5 of 13 Old 06-28-2012, 08:00 PM
<= Jeep differential LOL.

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The pads on the piston (inside) usually wear quicker than the outer pads. This happens on all cars.

Rear rotors and pads are $75 from Rock Auto. Do it yourself and save $340.

This is another case of the dealership trying to rip you off.

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post #6 of 13 Old 06-28-2012, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ypsibird View Post
If your description is accurate then I wouldn't place very much trust in your dealer. Inside pads 3mm and outside pads 5mm? Pretty much insignificant. It's not at all that uncommon for the inside pads to wear a little quicker. Or for the opposite. Pads don't always wear exactly even. And that's with everything in good condition. You failed to provide some vital information. How many miles did you get on those pads that you previously replaced at 34,000 miles? Are you suspicious of your local shop because you only got about 5 - 10,000 miles on the pads? TRD is perfectly correct. All rotors rust on the outside edge. It's not a problem in the slightest. Are the "ridges" your dealer referred to located there? You should be able to look at them yourself and see them. I can't comment as to your dealers price presuming that all the work they recommend is needed. I have always done my own brakes. My dad taught me how to do brakes (drums actually!) and I've always done my own.
Thanks for the note.......At 34k the rear rotors were replaced along with pads.....Were now at 69k and the Honda dealer is the one that wrote the above issues. What gets me is I don't know who to believe at the moment....Did the local repair guy I take it to at 34k, not set the rear calipers correctly and this is what the dealer is saying the result is? Or is the dealer trying to take me for a ride so he can try to get me to replace the rotors as well? I know its a question that cant be answered without being site on seen, but f_ck I hate being in this predicament.

I really wish I had the time and the knowledge to do the brakes on my own. But that is not in the cards.

What can I expect to pay if I bought my own rotors and pads and had a local shop install? The one other shop near me, was pretty adamant that most of the time rotors cannot be turned and they usually have to be replaced.

Who knows a good mechanic in Saint Paul MN!
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post #7 of 13 Old 06-28-2012, 08:41 PM
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Ok, thanks for the update. Since you got another 35,000 miles on your rear pads your local shop probably didn't didn't install the pads incorrectly. I suspect your dealer is probably overselling you a little. And I misspoke. It's pretty hard to see the inside of the rear rotor. Sorry. But from what you said, I would go back to your local shop because I doubt your dealer is being perfectly straight with you. You should go to your local shop to get your pads replaced - -only. If your local shop says you need new rotors then go ahead after asking them enough to clarify the situation. Are your having any brake problems? Any pull, shudder, pulsing, noise etc. If not, again you probably just need some new pads. Does your state law entitle you to get your old parts back? If so, it's a good detriment to shops that are trying to jerk you around. Pads aren't very expensive in the $30- 40 range and it shouldn't be more than about an hour of labor for a local shop to put pads on.

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post #8 of 13 Old 06-28-2012, 10:05 PM
<= Jeep differential LOL.

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Originally Posted by fall50 View Post
I really wish I had the time and the knowledge to do the brakes on my own. But that is not in the cards.
Take the time and do it yourself. You need a floor jack, a screwdriver, and a socket set. I rebuilt my jeep front differential at 16. If you can change a tire, which no matter what you say anyone can do it, you can do brakes.

If you simply lack the curiosity, we can't help with that.

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post #9 of 13 Old 06-29-2012, 11:44 AM
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The thing you have to know about changing brake pads and rotors is that "It DOESN'T hurt to change them out.", well that's unless they f up like in your case. Much like an air filter. It doesn't hurt to change out those parts, so the dealer will almost always oversell you on those things while explaining to you "oh the rotors NEED to be changed and so on." I have a 07 V6 accord and I didn't change my rear pads until 98000 miles, yes you read that right. While I was at it, I did change the rotors at the same time since I was in there already. I'm wondering now why you did a rear brake job at such low mileage. Somebody lied to you and said you need it done. It is usually good practice to either resurface the existing rotors or change out the rotors because you are mating them to new pads. If you go the resurface route, then the rotors must not go under the minimum thickness. For pads, 3mm on the inside and 5mm on the outside isn't all that unusual. They tell you like it's the end of days.

If you are scared to do it, then you need a second opinion from someone else. I suggest you taking it somewhere else for a second look.
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post #10 of 13 Old 06-29-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by t-rd View Post
The thing you have to know about changing brake pads and rotors is that "It DOESN'T hurt to change them out."

I have a 07 V6 accord and I didn't change my rear pads until 98000 miles, yes you read that right. I'm wondering now why you did a rear brake job at such low mileage. Somebody lied to you and said you need it done.


It is usually good practice to either resurface the existing rotors or change out the rotors because you are mating them to new pads. If you go the resurface route, then the rotors must not go under the minimum thickness.
I'm only quoting the statements that T-RD made that I disagree with. I certainly agree that he made a # of good points in his posts in this thread.

It does hurt to unnecessarily change out parts - - at least in the wallet.

It isn't all that unusual for the rear pads to wear out at 34,000 - 35,000 miles. My wife (a very conservative driver) wore out the rear pads on her 03 at 34,000 miles. and I just recently changed mine out at 46,000 miles. One of my inside pads was down to 1/8". It probably depends on how you drive and your city/highway mix.

Honda no longer recommends resurfacing rotors to bed in new pads. In fact they generally don't recommend turning rotors unless they are scored or out of specification. Here's a quote from the 12-2010 Honda ServiceNews:

Don't Refinish Brake Discs
Unnecessarily
Currently Applies To: All
Back in July of this year, we revised S/B 00-088,
Brake Disc Refinishing Guidelines. That revision had
two purposes:
• It removed the requirement to refinish new brake
discs. (Improvements in manufacturing processes
have made that unnecessary.)
• It stated that you should only refinish brake discs
when they are scored or out of specification for
runout or parallelism (backed up by
measurements).
But since then, there’s still been a lot of brake disc
refinishing being done, particularly during customerpay
brake jobs. This is a waste of perfectly good
brake disc material and, more importantly, your
customer’s money. So please review your repair
policies when replacing brake pads. Our
investigations have shown that the need for disc
refinishing should be rare. Discs should be refinished
only if they’re scored or out of spec. For detailed
inspection instructions, refer to the appropriate S/M.

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post #11 of 13 Old 06-29-2012, 03:05 PM
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I knew I was doing the right thing, by not having the rotors turned when I changed the pads. The dealerships were turning rotors, just to reduce the number of come-backs, but unless the customer was having problems before the pad change, he/she shouldn't have problems after the pad change. They just have to ask.

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post #12 of 13 Old 06-30-2012, 04:38 AM
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I don't think you're dealer is trying to screw you and I don't think there's anything unusual going on with your brakes. You've got 70k miles on the car, take the rotors off and have them turned and stick some new pads in it. Done deal, it won't cost much, and you're good to 100k plus. It should cost your between $10 and $20 per wheel to turn the disks, a set of pads should cost you something like $50 for the front and again for the rear and a couple of bucks for a can of cleaner. So you'll have less than $200 tied up in machine work and parts and supplies. Add your local shop's labor to that and you've got a price. If they turn the drums themselves, and many shops have a brake lathe, give them 2 hours labor to do the job.

I was just trying to remember, the last time I had to find a place to get a set of rotors turned and I was in a town where I didn't already know someone who could do it for me. As best I recall I took the rotors to a Midas Muffler shop and they turned them for me for something like twelve bucks each. My point is that if you haven't done this before but you're thinking about doing it yourself that its not at all hard to find a place to turn your rotors for you, lots of places will do it while you wait and most of them will let you stand there and stare at it while the little thread of steel winds itself off the bit. Its as fascinating as looking at a fire, you just can't take your eyes off of it.

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post #13 of 13 Old 06-30-2012, 06:38 AM
<= Jeep differential LOL.

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^ $415 per axle for rotors and pads is asinine.

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