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post #1 of 111 Old 05-14-2012, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Transmission Fluid Change

Hi guys. I just want to make sure that I'm going about the right direction about a transmission fluid change. I've searched a few posts, but want to ask just in case because I'm paranoid.

Long story short I'm long overdue for a transmission fluid change. I just hit the 60000km mark and this should have been done a while ago (however I'm living in nonharsh weather conditions). I drive a 07 accord Hybrid V6 auto. I've looked around and its highly NOT recommended that I do a tranny flush but only a tranny fluid change. I am a very DIY guy and I do my own oil changes so after reading this tutorial, I feel comfortable doing it myself. However in another post I heard that once I change the fluid and drive my vehicle around, I should change the fluid again (to remove slug in the tranny) for up to 3 times. My question is basically if my logical is flawed and also any special requirements for a hybrid car? Also is there a need to change the transmission filter as well?

Anyways thanks in advanced!

Edit: in the tutorial it looks like he didn't change the washer for the tranny bolt. Should I buy a new one and change that as well?

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post #2 of 111 Old 05-14-2012, 05:05 PM
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im at 64k miles and just changed the fluid yesterday, i just drained the old fluid and put new fluid in, there was a noticeable difference in smoother shifting, but not too much. Draining and refilling is just a waste of money in my opinion

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post #3 of 111 Old 05-14-2012, 05:08 PM
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This is just sort of a passing comment, and of course you will want to do a precautionary fluid change with these fragile transmissions. But when you think about it we place a lot of emphasis on changing the fluid in these transmission but in truth there is nothing wrong with the fluid, its the transmissions that are going bad. Bad fluid is only a symptom of a transmission already on its way out. Never the less we continue to concentrate on treating the symptom rather than the cause of the problem. And here is the sick thing about it; if you change your fluid and it comes up clean you haven't accomplished anything for your $50 worth of fluid but if you change your fluid and it is trashed (most likely with clutch-pack debris) then its already too late, and if you changed your fluid and it was polluted with transmission debris, but at a level you couldn't see very well, then you still haven't done anything to make the transmission better; all you will have managed to do is disguise the problem and hide it from yourself while day by day the transmission gets worse. I believe this conundrum is what the British used to call a "sticky wicket".

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post #4 of 111 Old 05-14-2012, 05:12 PM
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^ With this I'd say that the oil is breaking down due to heat. The comment makes sense, but the new fluid is worth the emphasis. And a drain and fill takes $20 and do it once a year for a normal driver of 15k

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post #5 of 111 Old 05-14-2012, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-Old-Man View Post
This is just sort of a passing comment, and of course you will want to do a precautionary fluid change with these fragile transmissions. But when you think about it we place a lot of emphasis on changing the fluid in these transmission but in truth there is nothing wrong with the fluid, its the transmissions that are going bad. Bad fluid is only a symptom of a transmission already on its way out. Never the less we continue to concentrate on treating the symptom rather than the cause of the problem. And here is the sick thing about it; if you change your fluid and it comes up clean you haven't accomplished anything for your $50 worth of fluid but if you change your fluid and it is trashed (most likely with clutch-pack debris) then its already too late, and if you changed your fluid and it was polluted with transmission debris, but at a level you couldn't see very well, then you still haven't done anything to make the transmission better; all you will have managed to do is disguise the problem and hide it from yourself while day by day the transmission gets worse. I believe this conundrum is what the British used to call a "sticky wicket".
I'm not too sure about you're saying. I get your reasoning that the tranny is what's wearing out, but bad tranny fluid (created due to heat) causes the tranny to undergo more stress than new fluid. So wouldn't that decrease the life of the tranny as well?

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^ With this I'd say that the oil is breaking down due to heat. The comment makes sense, but the new fluid is worth the emphasis. And a drain and fill takes $20 and do it once a year for a normal driver of 15k
Yea so is there any harm in doing a fluid change?
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post #6 of 111 Old 05-14-2012, 05:31 PM
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theres no harm..
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post #7 of 111 Old 05-14-2012, 05:36 PM
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Dont know if the hybrid-non hybrid transmissions are the same. You can change the washer but its not absolutely critical. Changing the filter is a good idea

I recently did the 3 drain and fills with filter and OEM fluid on a friend's 05 V6 coupe
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post #8 of 111 Old 05-14-2012, 06:04 PM
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Dirty fluid can clog the small passages and valves inside the transmission, which is why Honda doesn't recommend "power flushing" these transmissions. I change the fluid as often as needed, to keep it relatively clean. I changed the filter at 60k miles, and it needed to be changed, even though I do one drain and fill every 15k miles.

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post #9 of 111 Old 05-14-2012, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Dirty fluid can clog the small passages and valves inside the transmission, which is why Honda doesn't recommend "power flushing" these transmissions. I change the fluid as often as needed, to keep it relatively clean. I changed the filter at 60k miles, and it needed to be changed, even though I do one drain and fill every 15k miles.
I'm only up to about 38k miles right now so I guess I don't really need a filter change just yet? Or is there a difference in the fact that it's a V6 Hybrid?
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post #10 of 111 Old 05-14-2012, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Deviatorz View Post
I'm only up to about 38k miles right now so I guess I don't really need a filter change just yet? Or is there a difference in the fact that it's a V6 Hybrid?
I doubt there is any difference as far as the transmission itself.

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post #11 of 111 Old 05-14-2012, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviatorz View Post
bad tranny fluid (created due to heat) causes the tranny to undergo more stress than new fluid.
Exactly right. Eventually the tranny will go bad in ANY car. Same goes for the engine. The point is to prolong it's life by changing the fluid. If there is a fault in a transmission which caused the fluid to heat up excessively it will cause a domino effect. At the very least, those with old Z1 fluid should upgrade to DW1.

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post #12 of 111 Old 05-15-2012, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-Old-Man View Post
This is just sort of a passing comment, and of course you will want to do a precautionary fluid change with these fragile transmissions. But when you think about it we place a lot of emphasis on changing the fluid in these transmission but in truth there is nothing wrong with the fluid, its the transmissions that are going bad. Bad fluid is only a symptom of a transmission already on its way out. Never the less we continue to concentrate on treating the symptom rather than the cause of the problem. And here is the sick thing about it; if you change your fluid and it comes up clean you haven't accomplished anything for your $50 worth of fluid but if you change your fluid and it is trashed (most likely with clutch-pack debris) then its already too late, and if you changed your fluid and it was polluted with transmission debris, but at a level you couldn't see very well, then you still haven't done anything to make the transmission better; all you will have managed to do is disguise the problem and hide it from yourself while day by day the transmission gets worse. I believe this conundrum is what the British used to call a "sticky wicket".
No doubt -- all mechanical systems on cars are "going bad" from the day you buy them until they no longer function properly. Motors, transmissions, axles, brakes -- all of them. Any lubricating fluid goes bad with lots of heat cycling (as in transmissions and engines) and accelerates wear and tear when it does. Spend the $25 or so for DW1 A/T fluid and do a 1x drain and fill once a year, or more often if severe service or other conditions warrant. Screw what the manufacturers say -- you'll benefit in the long run.

It's an accepted fact that regular fluid/filter changes and sane driving/operating practices will extend the useful life of transmissions and engines -- but they will eventually die, all of them. The engines and A/T's on my '02 civic and '04 accord, with almost 400,000 miles between them, still work just fine with this strategy...
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post #13 of 111 Old 05-15-2012, 06:35 AM
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Well, certainly they will all die in time, but my Ford pickup truck, the one I have used for a decade to tow an 9,000 pound boat/trailer (1,000 pounds more than the truck itself weights) over the mountains of eastern West Virginia and western Maryland, now has just shy of 190,000 trouble-free miles on its transmission. So why is it that the Honda transmission, one that see no heat at all compared to that Ford, can't stay together for a quarter of the number of miles? Here's a hint, it ain't faulty fluid.

I don't know how much you know about the workings of automatic transmissions, but in generally they aren't nearly as complicated as you might imagine. Basically just about all of them on earth are a nested series of planetary gear sets with various schemes for holding two parts of the set and passing power through the third. I said 'just about all' for a reason and the reason is Honda. Honda automatic transmissions are different. About the best way I can describe one, to compare it to every other transmission on earth, is to say its basically a manual transmission that is shifted by solenoids with the power transmission softened by clutch packs which wear away like cheap retreads. And therein lies the problem. It is contamination created by the disintegration of those clutch packs that clogs up first the various lines within the transmission body and finally the torque converter itself - and no, heat has little to nothing to do with it. There is not one shred of evidence to show that Honda transmission run any hotter than any others nor is there so much as a shred of evidence to show that transmission coolers solve any problems with Honda transmissions. So the problem is not this mythical 'heat' that everyone seems to want to blame for the failures. Nope, the problem is not heat, or fluid that's not suitable to use, its simply a matter of bad transmission design. In Honda's defense I should mention that I have read that the only reason Honda designed its own style of transmission is because one of the Detroit giants would not sell them (or Honda was not willing to pay the price of) licenses to use various patented designs of transmission components. I don't know if that's true or not but it would certainly explain why Honda has continued to produce sub-par automatic transmissions for at least a decade. After owning my Acura and every day wondering if this would be the day that it crapped out on me I would not have bought another Honda product if it didn't have a manual transmission.

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post #14 of 111 Old 05-15-2012, 07:19 AM
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One drain and fill every now and again isn't going to remove the "bad" fluid well enough. One should do a drain and fill x3 and spread it out by changing the fluid every oil change x3, or you can do a tranny fluid exchange like this like this.


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post #15 of 111 Old 05-15-2012, 12:02 PM
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- 3 drain and 3 fills through the filler hole. You can fill through the tiny dipstick on the V6 if you can find a funnel with a tiny end like that, and it will take a long time for the fluid to flow in. DO NOT DO A FLUSH USING A MACHINE at Jiffy Lube/Midas or some similar shops OR SOME CRAZY METHOD VIA THE COOLING LINES. The old 6th gen V6's auto trans cooling lines are right up front and easy to get to (Yes, i owned the car and installed a trans cooler). That's what the dude has in the video here. The 7th gen V6 has a heat exchanger on top of the transmission that looks like a hockey puck and the you'd have to connect to those lines behind which are extremely hard to get to in order to do a "live flush." Even if you manage to do so, it's dangerous if you run the system dry while interchanging fluid.

- I have done a complete flush by Jiffy Lube using a T-Tech machine but the third gear was NOT THE SAME after that on my old 6th Gen Accord.

- Use Honda DW-1 ATF. You can use aftermarket but just do searches on tl.acurazine.net and you'll find transmission gear flaring problem from those that mixed in racing ATF.

- I'm not familiar with the hybrid auto trans but it should be similar

- no need to change the filler cap washer, but do change the drain plug washer.

- do this every 15000 miles if you drive semi-harsh to harsh conditions, meaning lots of stop and go traffic.

- a case of 12 bottles of DW-1 fluid runs $95 shipped from . You can get it locally but my local Honda charges retail price plus tax, plus the gas you need to use to drive to the dealer to get it.... waste of time and money. Just have it delivered to your front door.

- My local dealer charges $85 for 1 drain and refill, do the math.

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