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post #1 of 28 Old 01-09-2011, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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Gas Mileage Issue

The past few weeks my gas mileage has seemingly gotten worse and worse. From a fill up, I used to get between about 375-390 miles before the indicator light came on. I got that consistently as long as I can remember. I have a K&N intake and it did decrease my mileage a little bit. I've had it for about 5 months now and after I got it my miles stayed about 360-375 per fill up but I don't mind since it wasn't a huge difference. However over the past month or so I've been getting less and less, even only getting 300 miles when the light came on this past fill up. I've tried driving super conservatively and it still is not coming close to the numbers I used to get. Is my MAF Sensor bad maybe? Does anyone have any ideas or anything to look for? It seems like its getting worse and worse.

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post #2 of 28 Old 01-09-2011, 11:53 PM
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That's normal for me. I wish I can get the numbers you were getting before


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post #3 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 01:00 AM
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Since you just indicated that you have a MAF sensor. Go ahead and cleaned that up, and while you're on it, go ahead and clean your throttle body. That will definitely do the trick.

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post #4 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 01:40 AM
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Winter blend ftl!!

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post #5 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 03:41 AM
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It's winter! (colder denser air, longer warms-ups, perhaps lower tire pressure.) If you've lost 1-3 mpg it's normal.

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post #6 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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I wouldn't have thought to do the throttle body too but I'll definitely clean it out when I do the maf sensor. Sounds like a perfect storm between intake, winter cold, and winter blend. thanks for the responses!

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post #7 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 08:10 PM
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I have no performance mods at all on my 07 accord and I barely get 300 miles on a full tank and I drive very carefully. But it doesnt make sense for the winter to cause the bad mpgs because Cold Air Intakes advertise better mpg and more hp due to the colder and denser it produces for the engine.
My 2.4L accord burns more like a 3.5 and i only have 26k mileages on it. The bad mpg is a common issue raised on the thread. Its a problem that the 7th gen definitely has

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post #8 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 08:18 PM
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At some point, cold air starts working against you. Winter weather is well below a car's ideal temperature, and the air-fuel combo in your cylinders will be just too damn cold to operate properly.

Think of it like jogging. Any jogger would probably tell you they prefer colder weather to warmer weather. But they won't like running in -30 degree temps, would they?

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post #9 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 08:27 PM
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It's not the cold air that's doing you in, it's the fact that winter blend gas has higher ethanol content in it to act as anti-freeze, ethanol has less energy density per volume so the higher volume of ethanol in a gallon of "gasoline", the less mileage you will get.

BTW, my V6 is still getting 25 to 26 MPG now, in the summer I can easily hit 28 MPG on regular commuter driving, and hit 30 MPG on long distance, steady speed drives.

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post #10 of 28 Old 01-11-2011, 10:24 AM
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First of all, winter blend screws up fuel economy. I managed just below 30 for a few tanks, then the blend changed and I'm between 26 and 28. Make sure you aren't warming your car up for more than 30 seconds (assuming your drives are longer than 2 miles). This kills economy and people seem to forget or ignore that fact, then wonder why their economy took a dive when they warm the car up for 5 minutes every time they go anywhere.
Secondly, and more specifically in response to blackthunder's post, hogwash! The I4 is a very efficient engine when driven properly (by properly, I mean in a fuel efficient manner). I easily got 29.5 mpg in mixed driving by changing how I drove (from fast and hard to relaxed and easy). You can too, but you have to learn how to work with the car as designed. The car weighs around 4000 pounds and the I4 has less than 170 hp and torque. It is rated by the EPA at 21 city and 31 highway with a combined number of 24 mpg. Realistically, if you get 22-26 mpg, you are hitting the average that most people get. Furthermore, cold air is great for cars. Super cold air is not. In very cold weather, cars perform poorly just like in very warm air. Also, the V6 engine is a very efficient powerplant that, in some cases, outperforms the I4 in fuel economy. This is due to power to weight ratios - the V6 models have to work far less hard to achieve the same level of acceleration, often using less gas to do the same amount and speed of movement. Driven gingerly, some people have gotten incredibly good, competitive fuel economy with the V6. Proof? My last tank of gas, in mixed driving, was 26.12 mpg (253 miles/ 9.69 gallons). The tank before that? 27.26 mpg in mixed driving (345 miles/ 12.66 gallons). I've posted lengthy comments giving plenty of advice on improving fuel economy. It all works and no one says I'm wrong. You too could be getting 26 mpg+ with your I4 with little problem if you put some of what I've said to use. Trust me. I get where you are going with this. My 98 VW GTI with a V6 regularly got 24-26 mpg. That car weighed less, had a manual transmission, but a bigger motor. At first, I was getting closer to 22 mpg all the time. Then I did some research and experimented with driving style, warmups, eliminating road rage, route checking, etc. Since then, my WORST tank has been over 26 mpg. And yes, I've had nasty snowstorms and horrific traffic to contend with (I live in an urban area just outside of Chicago and frequently have to suffer traffic jams and city traffic).

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post #11 of 28 Old 01-11-2011, 10:47 AM
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jeffislouie, I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote and I agree with the tips you give in this and other threads but I do have a question for you (and for anyone else with input). In another thread you mentioned that you keep RPM low when accelerating to keep fuel consumption low. Indeed I used to follow this practice too. But I have read that this is not the best way to minimize consumption. I have read that minimizing pumping losses minimizes consumption while accelerating and to do so mean accelerating to speed with at least 75% throttle. In my own testing accelerating to speed with not-quite full throttle has actually decreased my fuel consumption in mixed city/hwy driving by 5%. I'm wondering what your thoughts on this are??


Edit: Here's a conversation on just what I'm writing about:

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post #12 of 28 Old 01-11-2011, 10:51 AM
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Winter blend fuel, spinning tires, low tire PSI (keep them set properly), colder temps often have the engine running with a richer fuel mixture for longer . . . it all adds up. It's normal to see fuel mileage increase thru winter. If it's a severe drop (10mpg less) something is wrong... but up to 5mpg less IMO is normal.

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post #13 of 28 Old 01-11-2011, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus View Post
jeffislouie, I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote and I agree with the tips you give in this and other threads but I do have a question for you (and for anyone else with input). In another thread you mentioned that you keep RPM low when accelerating to keep fuel consumption low. Indeed I used to follow this practice too. But I have read that this is not the best way to minimize consumption. I have read that minimizing pumping losses minimizes consumption while accelerating and to do so mean accelerating to speed with at least 75% throttle. In my own testing accelerating to speed with not-quite full throttle has actually decreased my fuel consumption in mixed city/hwy driving by 5%. I'm wondering what your thoughts on this are??


Edit: Here's a conversation on just what I'm writing about:
Hey Markus-
Not sure about any of that. It makes sense if you use constants, but acceleration isn't a constant, it's a variable. To my mind, and take that for what it is worth, the logic is that acceleration is, in general, bad for fuel economy (almost as bad as simply idling at a stop). I used to hit it and then try to stabilize my speed whenever possible and while that led to decent economy, my economy shot up when I began accelerating using the below 2500 rpm method. Do pumping losses mess things up? Maybe. My numbers, however, show that during my experiment I was able to increase fuel economy by using no more than 2500 rpm. It is possible that my more careful route selection and my intentional relaxation during the drives helped as well, but I wonder if there is any validity to the pumping losses thing. My current tank has been a bit of an anomaly compared to previous, experimental tanks - I've been driving more like I used to in terms of acceleration. I don't seem to be getting as good of a return in terms of mileage (i hit half a tank earlier than I have since I started playing with my efficiency tips), so I'm not sure if hard acceleration is a good strategy. I'll let you know when I refill if my efficiency decreased noticeably since the last few tanks (29.53, 27.26, and 26.12). For example, the 29.53 and 27.26 tanks, my techniques were strictly used. For the 26.12 tank, I did do some harder acceleration, out of frustration, but did stay within 5-7 miles over the limit, kept my pressures up, and generally stayed within my parameters. The major difference was the acceleration, so my results have born out a different result than would be expected under your theory.
Pumping losses. Interesting idea!

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post #14 of 28 Old 01-11-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffislouie View Post
First of all, winter blend screws up fuel economy.

Secondly, and more specifically in response to blackthunder's post, hogwash! The car weighs around 4000 pounds .
Sure agree with winter blend affecting fuel economy.

Not so sure about 4000 pounds. My 6M weighs 3250. The J30a4 is over 200# heavier than the 4-cy. 4000 just don't compute for this sailor.

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post #15 of 28 Old 01-11-2011, 03:38 PM
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i get the winter conditions and all but i STILL cant figure out whats wrong with mine. 200 miles per tank. thats equivalent to around 15 mpg (assuming its 200 miles every 13 gallons - which is what i usually fill up around). my sisters tC (i know it is much lighter) can go probably more than 350+ miles per tank.. maybe i should clean the MAF..


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