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post #1 of 29 Old 09-13-2010, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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Timing chain tensioner failure

So i have an 06 accord ex-l, 4cyl, auto, 80k miles. the timing chain tensioner failed and my car skipped timing. i don't think any of the internals were damaged. a friend and i are going to attempt to replace the tensioner. doesn't seem to hard. the only thing im worried about is getting it back on time. should i only have to make sure its at tdc? or do i have to remove the timing chain cover, remove the chain and reinstall it as if it was a new chain? after removing the valve cover its obvious the intake cam was the one that is jumping gears. I found a post in the 8th gen forum about some info on the timing chain tensioner issue but i felt that this is where i should post. here is the post: Dealer says I my car jumped time...

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post #2 of 29 Old 09-13-2010, 04:26 PM
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How far did it jump time? Any more than 3 teeth on crank, the valves WILL be bent.

The tensioner by design will slack off if the engine rotates backwards, normally this won't cause any issues. This is provided there is minimal wear on the guides and the chain hasn't stretched. Honda has a bulletin on how to measure tensioner protrusion to determine if the chain/guides are bad.

If they have worn or the chain has stretched, it can slack off too much and jump when cranked over at the next start.

Just putting the chain back on "in time" isn't going to fix anything if parts are bad.

The 8th gens don't have a tensioner issue that I'm aware of, but they DO have VTC actuator issues that cause a severe rattle on startup.

I've yet to hear a chain rattle on a K20 or K24. Even on ones with 200k plus on original chains.

I've seen 1 misbuild, and one '03 K24 with a wiped out exhaust cam.

Can you take pics with the front pulley at TDC and the marks on the cams where they end up?


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post #3 of 29 Old 09-14-2010, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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yah ill take some pics in the morning. but let me give you a little bit of history so you can see where im coming from.

i use my car for work, i do a lot of hard driving and this last barrage of driving i over did it and i ran it on low oil. i know stupid stupid, the miles just got away from me. so the oil light came on and it started making this noise like a 10 speed does changing gears on a old bike. didn't dawn on me what it could be. i think i was in denial. so i added oil till i can take it in for service and it would make the noise every now and then at start up. i couldn't find anything online about the noise. the car ran fine. it ran like a champ. then one day i go to lunch and it starts up fine and at the end of the day I'm getting ready to go home, i crank it over and it dies immediately. it didn't even start. i tried to start it over and over like an idiot till i realized it could be something with the timing and i could be banging stuff around in there. this was before i knew how the valve train worked on the k24. its definitely not like my old 96 accord.

so i talk to a friend who is a toyota service tech and he mentions jumped timing. so i went to researching and that's when i found this site and the topic about the tensioner dying with low oil pressure. so he comes over, we take the valve cover off and there was the chain raised by the intake cam. he gets a wrench and puts it on the intake cam and barely tugs on it and it jumps teeth easily. so after reading tons of stuff on here and us looking at it i came to the conclusion that when i went to crank it over the last time like you said it had rotated backwards and jumped timing, but not severely. hopefully me trying to start it a few more times didn't break anything.

i really want to try this 50$ fix before i go for worse case scenario new motor for 800$ because i don't know any one accomplished enough to do valves for a decent price.

now that i think about it, maybe i should just remove the tensioner and inspect it, it wouldn't hurt. if i can accomplish that in the next couple days ill post pics of that too.

Last edited by camperchuck; 09-14-2010 at 12:34 AM. Reason: append
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post #4 of 29 Old 09-14-2010, 04:30 PM
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Since its jumped time, the only way to get it back in time is to get the chain slack enough to take the cam OUT of the engine to put it back in time. You don't want the cam chain to come off the crankshaft you need to keep it taut on the non tensioned side of the chain.

If you look at the guides how deep are the grooves in the plastic that the chain has made in them? The noise you heard, I really hope wasn't the pivoting guide breaking. Take a VERY bright flashlight and look down into the chain case and look at all the guides, is any plastic missing? Was the oil, although low, just black or does it have metal in it? Put it in sunlight or a bright flashlight to see if you see metal flakes.

Running it low on oil is a very good reason for that (chain slack/jump) to happen, since it's lost oil pressure, I'd highly expect to see wiped rod bearings or wiped balancer bearings since that's also the oil pump on the K24.

Sorry to be a bad news person.

Sapphire blue '04 V6 6 speed w/ full HFP, comptech ss, momo shadow, TL-S 27.2h/20 bars, intake spacer, retro chrome MH1 HIR2 highs, hella DE fogs, EBC Ultimax, subwoofer/amp, infinity rears, HD Radio, aux adapter, navi conversion.

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post #5 of 29 Old 09-14-2010, 04:36 PM
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03 Accord LX I4 5spd, 265k miles.
with 19 HFP Wheels and Eibach pro spring kit (second set as the first set of rear springs rusted apart).
Previous car: 98 Civic EX 5sp. with 155K, RIP
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post #6 of 29 Old 09-14-2010, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the reply's and the info. i ordered the tensioner anyways just in case. starting tomorrow night we're gonna dive into it to see what we find. i will for sure be back to post the results and the answers to your questions. I might have some answers tonight. i know for sure there is no metal in the oil. the sound had to be the chain binding and when the oil pressure built up the tension was there and the chain stopped binding. i really hope its not what you think it could be, but anything possible with no oil in the dang car.

you know i must be getting old cuz this is a huge stupid mistake since im on the car enthusiast side. i have had my fair share of cars and had a few drag cars, but this daily driver accord i haven't been so nice to. if i get her back up and running im gonna take care of it better. i don't know what the hell i was thinking and its pretty embarrassing to to publicly admit to screwing up but i gotta do what i gotta do. thank you again for your help even though it was my stupid mistake.

fyi this video gave me a good idea about how the tensioner can die, i know its for race applications but they said stock motors can do it too:
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post #7 of 29 Old 09-16-2010, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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so far takin it all apart the tensioner teeth were kinda chewed up and the chain is stretched. gonna order a new chain and see here we are at. the guides look perfect along with all the gears and hardware.
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post #8 of 29 Old 09-16-2010, 04:19 PM
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Don't replace just the chain, the guides wear right along with the chain, if there's a track worn in them replace them.

You will need to remove the chain case cover in order to do this. Hope your very familiar with Hondabond (silicone) and how critical it is to clean everything and keep it oil free so it won't leak.

Sapphire blue '04 V6 6 speed w/ full HFP, comptech ss, momo shadow, TL-S 27.2h/20 bars, intake spacer, retro chrome MH1 HIR2 highs, hella DE fogs, EBC Ultimax, subwoofer/amp, infinity rears, HD Radio, aux adapter, navi conversion.

Vermilion 1999 SVT F150 Lightning, Sylvania/Visteon Xenarc HID headlamps, '01 L turn/marker lamps, PIAA fogs, '01 up Bilstein shocks, all Pioneer speakers, Clarion subwoofer. All Redline fluids.

Silverstone 2003 Honda S2000, bone stock
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post #9 of 29 Old 09-17-2010, 04:22 AM Thread Starter
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it's all apart, case is off. the guides honestly look perfect. I can see no wear on them. I have access to this site called alldatapro.com and it is very helpful on repair instructions. shows exactly how to disassemble and reassemble, also shows where exactly to apply the bond. all the surfaces are clean and we have the hondabond so all is good, just waiting for the chain to show up on Saturday. I'll say this, that crank shaft pulley nut was a chore to get off. I'll let you know what happens Saturday. thanks fredsvt!!
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post #10 of 29 Old 09-20-2010, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
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the tensioner was chewed up, the chain had about two links on the new chain. got new stuff installed and everything back together and timed. cranked it over. nada. did a compression test. nada. im off to LA to get an engine. thanks for your help.
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post #11 of 29 Old 09-20-2010, 04:27 PM
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that was REALLY stretched. I'm surprised it ran as well as it did before it let go

Sapphire blue '04 V6 6 speed w/ full HFP, comptech ss, momo shadow, TL-S 27.2h/20 bars, intake spacer, retro chrome MH1 HIR2 highs, hella DE fogs, EBC Ultimax, subwoofer/amp, infinity rears, HD Radio, aux adapter, navi conversion.

Vermilion 1999 SVT F150 Lightning, Sylvania/Visteon Xenarc HID headlamps, '01 L turn/marker lamps, PIAA fogs, '01 up Bilstein shocks, all Pioneer speakers, Clarion subwoofer. All Redline fluids.

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post #12 of 29 Old 09-21-2010, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
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well it ran perfectly normal (minus the timing chain noise) till the end. supposed to pick up an 06 motor with 30k on Wednesday. that's gonna be a chore. any ideas on what to do with the old motor?
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post #13 of 29 Old 09-21-2010, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camperchuck View Post
any ideas on what to do with the old motor?
sell me the auto tensioner

2007 Acura TL Type-S
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post #14 of 29 Old 09-21-2010, 04:14 PM
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Since it needs valves, you could sell it as such. You might get a hundred or so as mixed aluminum scrap.

You could also break it down to all of its component parts and sell them piece by piece.

Strip the head or not, the cams could come in handy for someone with an '03 with wiped cam lobes.

Sapphire blue '04 V6 6 speed w/ full HFP, comptech ss, momo shadow, TL-S 27.2h/20 bars, intake spacer, retro chrome MH1 HIR2 highs, hella DE fogs, EBC Ultimax, subwoofer/amp, infinity rears, HD Radio, aux adapter, navi conversion.

Vermilion 1999 SVT F150 Lightning, Sylvania/Visteon Xenarc HID headlamps, '01 L turn/marker lamps, PIAA fogs, '01 up Bilstein shocks, all Pioneer speakers, Clarion subwoofer. All Redline fluids.

Silverstone 2003 Honda S2000, bone stock
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post #15 of 29 Old 09-22-2010, 01:20 AM Thread Starter
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paperboy, let me check the tensioner in the motor im picking up tomorrow first. if i dont need it ill let you know.

fred, sounds like i got several options. ill definitly explorer them all.

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