Does my car qualify for the Lemon Law in NY state? - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #1 of 30 Old 06-07-2010, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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Does my car qualify for the Lemon Law in NY state?

Also, does my car qualify under the Lemon Law in New York State? It was purchased as a Certified Used vehicle (powertrain warranty up to 7 years/100k miles... Bumper to bumper up to 48k miles) in August of 2009 with only 20,014 miles on it. It has the remainder of the factory new car warranty AND the certified used warranty. And as soon as we purchased it, I noticed that it would drift/pull to the left at higher speeds... Took it back to the Shady Honda dealer (paragon... Stay away) and they "couldn't reproduce the problem". They did however, give the car an alignment... DIDN'T HELP...

So they then had me take it to a nearby independent alignment/ tire shop that they work with to get another alignment... DIDN'T HELP

I brought it back to the independent shop AGAIN, and they did yet ANOTHER alignment (all on Honda's dime)... DIDN'T HELP...

I brought it back to Honda and they replaced the two front tires for free... DIDN'T HELP...

So, lately, the alignment has gotten really bad... Steering has felt all spongy and loose. Got an alignment at Sears and it still felt bad... Found out that my front tires (the ones that were put on new back in August, and now only have 22k miles on them) were getting bald and wearing unevenly... Got the tires rotated and brought it back to Sears for a new alignment... Steering felt better for a week and must be out of alignment again because the steering is just as bad as before.

Also, the whole rear 1/4 panel and rear door on the driver's side had been repainted before we bought the car (paint is starting to peel by the back door when you open it up on the C pillar, and the rear driver's side door is showing slight signs of bubbling in the paint.), and we hadn't realized all this body work stuff until fairly recently...

And NOW, my tranny fluid is consistently black, and my tranny is shifting rough and it shifts way before its supposed to sometimes, and it doesn't have power where it should sometimes...

So, basically, if we get in touch with HondaAmerica (Honda of America, American Honda, etc... Whatever it is), What can we do about this? Can it be considered a "Lemon" in the state of NY? And can we get fully reimbursed?

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post #2 of 30 Old 06-07-2010, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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I forgot to add... We got the Carfax when we bought the car and the car came up clean... I have a record of that... Also, yeah, the alignments have been in spec, and both Sears AND the Honda dealer I recently took it to (not where we bought it originally) said that the front suspension components "seem fine" and "aren't bent".


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post #3 of 30 Old 06-08-2010, 07:13 AM
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I strongly feel that you will succeed going that way. This is just not right. The dealer dealt with the same problem more than 3 times and could not solve a potentially dangerous problem. As I said before, an Attorney in New York state is your best bet to advise you precisely.

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post #4 of 30 Old 06-08-2010, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
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I forgot to add... We got the Carfax when we bought the car and the car came up clean...
Many examples of Carfax missing accidents. You may want to verify that you have VIN stickers everywhere they should be. If they are missing from the hood, fenders, etc. it may indicate that your car took a hit.

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post #5 of 30 Old 06-08-2010, 08:09 AM
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Carfax only works if all repairs are called into them.

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post #6 of 30 Old 06-08-2010, 08:15 AM
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Possible frame geometry damage. Alignment will not help in this case. Did you bring this car to a reputable body shop for search of possible accident signs?

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post #7 of 30 Old 06-08-2010, 08:35 AM
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Sorry to hear about this headache. Just curious, has any mechanic driven the car and observed an abnormal pull to the left? Did any technician put in writing that something was wrong? I realize you had several alignments, but if they were done as good customer service to appease you, those alignments may not prove the suspension has a problem. I don't mean to be negative, but without a formal confirmation that a problem exists, I must wonder if you have a foundation for a case. Did any of the service departments agree that the car drove improperly?

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post #8 of 30 Old 06-08-2010, 08:37 AM
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I can't seem to find anything on the DMV's website, but I'm pretty sure that in order to qualify, the dealer must have attempted to fix a single problem four times or had the vehicle out of service for repairs for greater than 30 days in order to qualify. One of the websites () I found stated that this is only true if the problem is first reported within the first 18,000 miles or two years, whichever comes first.

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post #9 of 30 Old 06-08-2010, 01:27 PM
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good luck bro

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post #10 of 30 Old 06-08-2010, 07:23 PM
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You have frame damage. You wont qualify for lemon law because you bought the car used and there doesn't seem to be notes from the dealers or independent shops of a problem. What you should do is go to a good shop and have the frame checked (subframe f/r). Honda dealers are fools, the dont know shit nor can they check for anything. If all your alignments are in spec, id start looking at subframe gaps and inconsistencies. An easy way to tell if the subframe is shifted is to remove on of the main subframe bolts, if the bolt comes out straight and easy, your good, if not, then you found a problem which will lead to finding more problems. Check all your body panels for VIN stickers.

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post #11 of 30 Old 06-08-2010, 08:03 PM
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Sorry man, but your car does not qualify...its to old and has to many miles on it. The only thing you can do is try selling it on your own and hope to get back what you paid for it or try trading it in for something else. Sorry you got stuck with a lemon. I had a car that was bought back under the CT lemon law and what a pain in the ass that was to get done! but at least its gone! Good luck man!

You actually might want to try something with Carfax. If you where showed a clean Carfax and the vehicle was involved in an accident you might qualify for their buy back guarantee. Not sure exactly how that works though, but I would look into it if I where you!
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post #12 of 30 Old 06-08-2010, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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good luck bro
Thanks alot man. I will be getting in touch with you sometime this week
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You have frame damage. You wont qualify for lemon law because you bought the car used and there doesn't seem to be notes from the dealers or independent shops of a problem. What you should do is go to a good shop and have the frame checked (subframe f/r). Honda dealers are fools, the dont know shit nor can they check for anything. If all your alignments are in spec, id start looking at subframe gaps and inconsistencies. An easy way to tell if the subframe is shifted is to remove on of the main subframe bolts, if the bolt comes out straight and easy, your good, if not, then you found a problem which will lead to finding more problems. Check all your body panels for VIN stickers.
I am going to have a local shop look at all that tomorrow. Ill be there when they do.
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Sorry man, but your car does not qualify...its to old and has to many miles on it. The only thing you can do is try selling it on your own and hope to get back what you paid for it or try trading it in for something else. Sorry you got stuck with a lemon. I had a car that was bought back under the CT lemon law and what a pain in the ass that was to get done! but at least its gone! Good luck man!

You actually might want to try something with Carfax. If you where showed a clean Carfax and the vehicle was involved in an accident you might qualify for their buy back guarantee. Not sure exactly how that works though, but I would look into it if I where you!
I took this right from the Carfax that I got with the car:

"GUARANTEED - None of these major title problems were reported by a state Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). If you find that any of these title problems were reported by a DMV and not included in this report, CARFAX will buy this vehicle back."

I'll call the DMV of NY and New Jersey (where the car was bought by the first owner) tomorrow.

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post #13 of 30 Old 06-08-2010, 09:50 PM
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I can't seem to find anything on the DMV's website, but I'm pretty sure that in order to qualify, the dealer must have attempted to fix a single problem four times or had the vehicle out of service for repairs for greater than 30 days in order to qualify. One of the websites () I found stated that this is only true if the problem is first reported within the first 18,000 miles or two years, whichever comes first.
I was a hearings examiner for a state department of transportation, handling lemon law cases a number of years ago. Let me just add, owners should be very careful to make the dealer document each and every repair attempt so they "count." Merely bringing the car in and having the dealer do a blowoff once-over doesn't serve your interests... get those service sheets and keep them. Don't leave until the exact issue you are complaining about has been reduced to writing, every time.

State laws vary of course, but the last repair attempt may have to be done by the manufacturer, not the dealer. Meaning, you will take the car into whatever local dealer the manufacturer wants, and their tech will do the job, not the dealer's mechanic. Sort of a last-ditch failsafe.

The "out of service" issue (30 days or whatever your law is) is frequently negated by the dealer providing a loaner, if it looks like you might tag them on it. Loaners typically stop the clock from running.

Your lemon law may have some language like "impaired use and value." In other words, the actual use of the car has to be impaired, AND the market value of the car has to be impaired. As an example, a cosmetically bad weld and repaint of a door hinge may decrease market value, but the hinge may work fine, so there is no impairment of use.

So if you think you can jump through the hoops in a given case, and the manufacturer isn't cooperating, you may end up in a hearing to prove all the necessary elements. And there's maybe an intake officer to make sure if your claim is doubtful, you never get a hearing even if you filed a complaint and paid a filing fee... although a couple of silly cases did come my way. They generally will work pretty hard to find a mutual solution short of a buy-back though.

I'm not your attorney and this isn't legal advice, it is only a general discussion. There are attorneys who specialize in lemon law matters, although these hearings are generally pretty informal, like a small claims court.
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post #14 of 30 Old 06-09-2010, 01:38 AM
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I took this right from the Carfax that I got with the car:

"GUARANTEED - None of these major title problems were reported by a state Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). If you find that any of these title problems were reported by a DMV and not included in this report, CARFAX will buy this vehicle back."

I'll call the DMV of NY and New Jersey (where the car was bought by the first owner) tomorrow.
Carfax is a useless report. A major title problem would be a vehicle that was declared a total loss and either retaining a junk status, or rebuilt with a salvage status. Or it may indicate a Dept of Justice hold if it is a stolen vehicle.

Straight from Carfax help page:
"The CARFAX Buyback Guarantee ("guarantee") protects consumers from buying cars or light trucks with one of the following branded titles issued by a Department of Motor Vehicles and each Canadian Province: Salvage (excluding Salvage brands issued due to Theft), Junk, Rebuilt, Reconstructed, Dismantled, Fire, Flood, Hail, Exceeds Mechanical Limits, Not Actual Mileage and Manufacturer/Lemon Buyback. The branded title must have been issued at least 60 days prior to the date the CARFAX report was run and the issuing event missed by CARFAX.

The guarantee does not cover any/all accident, total loss, or frame/structural damage events unless a branded title was issued by a government as a result. Brands are typically issued to vehicles when the resulting damage from the event exceeds a specific percentage of the vehicle's value. Please refer to each state/province's branding requirements for more specific information.

Vehicles having varying accident damage may qualify for the guarantee if a branded title was issued to the vehicle prior to a CARFAX Report being run.

No other data is covered by this guarantee."

I assume your vehicle does not have a junk or salvage title. Most accidents don't result in total losses. If the vehicle was involved in an accident and repaired poorly, it would not be on a Carfax report because insurance companies and repair shops are not required to file reports with any agency. So Carfax is not an accurate account of a vehicle's history. It would be useful only to determine if the vehicle was a stolen vehicle or rebuilt wreck, if it was not advertised as such.

Sorry to hear you are having problems with your Accord. But since you purchased it used, there probably won't be much you can do about it.
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post #15 of 30 Old 06-09-2010, 01:45 AM
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Didn't you have an accident not too long ago, a sideswipe on the driver side? So if your paint is peeling on the driver side, could that be from your recent accident repair?

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