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post #1 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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change oil filter every other time?

Ownerlink and the books state for my Accord and wife's '09 Civic to change the oil under maintenace minder A. And to change the oil & filter under maintenance minder B. So they have you changing the filter every other change. Does this sound cool? I can probably bet the dealers are not doing this... But I do all of our maintenace myself and use Mobil 1, Pennzoil platinum or Motorcraft syn blend 5-20. For filters I use PurOne's. PL14610, which is the stock application for both my accord and the wife's 1.8L Civic. I really think I might follow Honda's recommendation of the filter every other time. If I was having Jiffy pop or some other crack head place do it, forget it, every time. But being I bought both these Honda used, the first change has been and will be M1 & P1 for one time use to clean out any crap. Then I'll be on the every other schedule.


2007 EX-L Sedan, 2.4L, 5spd Manual, USA-Spec Ipod Interface, OEM Auto dimming compass Rear view mirror, OEM Fog Light kit, Goodyear Fuel Max tires , Magnetic Drain plugs in Trans & Engine. 36.55 MPG Best tank so far (336mi/9.193gal). M1 & P1 filter.
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post #2 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 08:59 AM
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A filter costs only $4. There's got to be better ways to save money. I'd change the filter with every oil change. Cheap insurance.


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post #3 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 09:03 AM
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That's been common since at least 2003. I think most folks change the filter at the same time the oil is drained especially since you are right there anyway. If I were using a high dollar filter like Mobil 1 or K&N I'd likely do it every other time but not with inexpensive filters.
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post #4 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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PureOne's are not a cheap filter; approx $7. M1's are a subcontracted filter on par with P1's. A P1 is top tier filtering. NO cardboard, Nitrile gasket and ADBV etc. I might try it one time and see how dirty the 2nd batch of oil gets and how quick. If it's like the first batch fine, but if it gets dirty much quicker, back to doing the filter every time. Even a cheap filter, the white regular Purolators are $4.49+tax now. Even STP's are $4.49. I don't know, but seems like oil filters have jumped pricing in the past 2-3 yrs quite a bit. Napa gold is almost $10. M1 is $13, K&N is like $14... it's unreal. I've always run a P1 or Napa gold. I've been a avid Bob is the oil guy'er and cut open many filter over the past 10+yrs. Always come back to the P1 or Napa gold. But for small size filters, like Honda I prefer the Purolators.

2007 EX-L Sedan, 2.4L, 5spd Manual, USA-Spec Ipod Interface, OEM Auto dimming compass Rear view mirror, OEM Fog Light kit, Goodyear Fuel Max tires , Magnetic Drain plugs in Trans & Engine. 36.55 MPG Best tank so far (336mi/9.193gal). M1 & P1 filter.
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post #5 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 09:52 AM
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I cant see some one changing oil more than 3 times a year. and maybe once if you go to 10k miles. So filter price should not make people change it less.

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post #6 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AverageJoe View Post
PureOne's are not a cheap filter; approx $7. M1's are a subcontracted filter on par with P1's. A P1 is top tier filtering. NO cardboard, Nitrile gasket and ADBV etc. I might try it one time and see how dirty the 2nd batch of oil gets and how quick. If it's like the first batch fine, but if it gets dirty much quicker, back to doing the filter every time. Even a cheap filter, the white regular Purolators are $4.49+tax now. Even STP's are $4.49. I don't know, but seems like oil filters have jumped pricing in the past 2-3 yrs quite a bit. Napa gold is almost $10. M1 is $13, K&N is like $14... it's unreal. I've always run a P1 or Napa gold. I've been a avid Bob is the oil guy'er and cut open many filter over the past 10+yrs. Always come back to the P1 or Napa gold. But for small size filters, like Honda I prefer the Purolators.
If the $7 every 5-10K miles is make or break for you, you probably oughta take the bus. Pumping your tires up another 1PSI would save you at least that much. It is a ridiculous concept that changing your oil filter every other time would be acceptable. You said it yourself...SMALL SIZE filters. My Mazda ran 6qts of oil with a gigantic filter and it still called for 5k oil changes under normal schedule. Honda's pulling your leg, that and their "lifetime" tranny filters and "120K" ATF. Unfortunately for most the "lifetime" comes before 120K.

And they're only $4.50 on Amazon with free shipping if you buy over $25.
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post #7 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
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Even a cheap filter, the white regular Purolators are $4.49+tax now.
Use the (.PDF) to bring it down to $3 (limit 2 per address), if you don't want to do the PureOne Amazon deal.
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post #8 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 01:30 PM
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I would rather use a cheaper filter, and change it every time, than let any high-dollar filter stay on for two change intervals.

92 EX Sedan auto (RBM) - sold after 12 years (140k miles)
03 EX V6 Sedan auto (NBP, then Ford Blue) - traded in after 13 years (135k miles)
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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^ that's what i'm leaning toward. Running a regular white purolator for $4.49 on each oil change interval. Regular Purolators are still a great filter, especially compare to the orange junk one.

2007 EX-L Sedan, 2.4L, 5spd Manual, USA-Spec Ipod Interface, OEM Auto dimming compass Rear view mirror, OEM Fog Light kit, Goodyear Fuel Max tires , Magnetic Drain plugs in Trans & Engine. 36.55 MPG Best tank so far (336mi/9.193gal). M1 & P1 filter.
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post #10 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 06:19 PM
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OEM are $4.25 the stealership. Almost a no brainer to change it out every oil change. You figure at the most (a regular driver) will change the oil out four times a year ($17.00 a year for filters. Most people keep their cars maybe ten years nowadays. That's roughly $170.00 for the ownership of the car. That's peanuts for peace of mind.
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post #11 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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$4.25 for OEM honda filters? Hhhmm last time I checked they were like $8. I just find it odd how Honda is pushing this. I did find some Honda folk on BITOG forums and they have over 100k on Hondas running every other oil filter intervals. Few others have cut open some WIX filters with 2x changes on them and they look great. Makes you wonder b/c when you fill up your gas tank, you don't change out your fuel filter. Our hondas are very clean burning engines. I know my brothers FIT with like 8k looks like fresh oil. My Accord is right behind it... I just don't think these engines have that much garbage floating around/being created. I'm starting to think that the filter change thing is like the old 3k oil change interval myth. I know when I was growing up if someone told me they ran their 1989 V6 Buick 8-10k on a oil change I would think they're an escaped mental patient. But look, here we are... and I'm following the %meter and so are lots of other folks with awsome results. And even if I went back in a time machine theres no way I would convince my old self that... I'm going to run the P1's and skip one oil change on them and see how it works out. If the engines make any startup noise, or the oil looks darker than usual I'll change them. But right now, my wife's honda is under warranty, and Honda specifcally states the oil filter is changed every other time. So that's the perfect car to try it on. Especially being it's only got like 20k on it. So we know the engine's not all nasty. I know my accord has just shy of 50k on it and looking down the oil fill cap with a flashlight.. looks spotless. Everything shiny and new looking. The only argument against Honda's recommendation is "cheap insurance". Which is true, I agree it's cheap. But that's beside the point. Honda had to come up with something more scientific than "cheap insurance" when they state to skip oil filter changes. Folks at Honda have to be pretty dang smart. They're leaps and bounds ahead of others, we all know and love our Hondas... so when they say to change the filter every other time we jump out and say "No Mr. Honda engineering team, you guys only built my car and your whole compay but I know better than you about oil filters". Just doens't seem logical. I've owned diesel trucks before too, so I know what a dirty engine is... trust me. Those filters got changed out per spec. You'd hear it clacking if not. Here is another example of filter invertals. On my Diesel truck there were two fuel fileters; primary and secondary. Book stated to change it every Xhrs or 20k. Guys on the forum knew better, and they all swore up and down that 10-12k was a better interval. Mind you these filters came in a kit for $60-$80 and took 1hr to change. So at 12k I decided ok, change them. Filters came out looking great. I wanted to put them back in. They were almost completely white and clean. Truck had no issues at 12k, ran the same with new filters... So I went to 20k intervals. Truth be told, depending on where you got your fuel, you could go 30k on them. I remember I changed one set out at 22k and it was I'd say "alright". Point: Sometime we don't know better. and look how much money you throw away. When I changed out those fuel filters at 12k instead of the stated 20k, I basically threw away $24-32 and some time.

2007 EX-L Sedan, 2.4L, 5spd Manual, USA-Spec Ipod Interface, OEM Auto dimming compass Rear view mirror, OEM Fog Light kit, Goodyear Fuel Max tires , Magnetic Drain plugs in Trans & Engine. 36.55 MPG Best tank so far (336mi/9.193gal). M1 & P1 filter.
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post #12 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 07:17 PM
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So Honda says to leave the filter on for two oil change intervals, of maybe 8,000 miles. They also say the automatic transmission fluid will last until 120k miles. I don't buy either one. Honda knows the engine will outlast the warranty, even with the extended intervals, and they are lowering the cost of maintenance, which makes potential buyers happy. Honda has nothing to loose. Of course the dealership wants to make more money, so they advise shorter intervals, but that's only after you've purchased the car. Neat how that works out, for them.

92 EX Sedan auto (RBM) - sold after 12 years (140k miles)
03 EX V6 Sedan auto (NBP, then Ford Blue) - traded in after 13 years (135k miles)
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post #13 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceman196 View Post
I cant see some one changing oil more than 3 times a year. and maybe once if you go 10k miles. So filter price should not make people change it less.
Wha? I change every couple of months since Im at 5-6K miles by then. I used to go the 10K but the oil was much to dirty and I had added more than a quart by then. I plan on keeping the car till death so I would like the extra insurance. Maybe I need to go to a higher level filter other than the off the shelf cheaper ones.

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with 19 HFP Wheels and Eibach pro spring kit (second set as the first set of rear springs rusted apart).
Previous car: 98 Civic EX 5sp. with 155K, RIP
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post #14 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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My company car is a '08 Pontiac G6 4cyl Auto. book states 50k intervals on the trans service. in the late 80's and even in the 90's GM was pushing 15-30k intervals for Auto transmissions. I now have 53k on the car and still have not had it serviced. (busy etc). Fluid looks like brand new, and shifts great. I know a guy who bought two 1988 Jeep Cherokees brand new. 1st one died in 2006? with over 300k!! He NEVER changed the Auto trans fluid/filter. 2nd one is ont he same track with over 200k and only oil changes. Funny thing, why did the first one die? Head gasket on the 4.0 started going on. But the trans was fine! lol. Trust me, I agree I want to change my filter every time but I you have ask questions. That's the engineer coming out. I just think today's cars are much more refined than those poor POS's from the 80's and early 90's. So when we see these extended intervals, I think it's progress. The fluids are much better (GM is up to DEX VI IIRC). Not to mention the engines and transmissions are much better now. Why shouldn't a trans go 120k on fluid? It's a hydrualic box. On my job site I have heavy equipment that goes hundreds of hours and all we do is oil changes and maybe a hydraulic filter change. Hydraulic fluid goes a long way. Usually only gets changed after thousands of hours of hard work. Now if you do a lot of city driving, 120k might be overkill. Look at the "severe" and "normal" numbers. Severe is the low end, normal is the high end. That usually gives me an idea of the range in service interval and adjust accordingly. say split the difference. But these Hondas are the first cars I've owned that state the oil filter change deal. Hence why I asked. If people were blowing up engines (which nobody states they have) I would not do it. I also believe the dealers use sub-standard bulk oil. I've seen the inside of to many engines from a steady diet of bulk oil, not good. I'll stick with my 5w-20 Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum or Motorcraft Synblend. That is something that's easily tested and proved. I'll stick with good oil. Bottom line is that Honda feels the OEM size oil filter has enough capacity (which this whole argument is really about) for two %meter intervals. I've also seen a lot of guys at the BITOG say their used oil analysis comes back great, and the K24 engine is very "easy" on oil. I will use a P1 and follow Honda's recommendation. I will closely monitor noises, oil level and turbidity (clarity). After actually doing it, I will come up with my own conclusion. Does not seem like people are blowing engines b/c of this.


On a side note/food for thought. Some guys on BITOG have a theory that Honda recommends the skipped filter changed due to the upper end wear from dry starts at oil changes. Others theorize that the filter becomes more efficient over time and filters better. Which is true. The more clogged a filter gets, the better it filters, but the flow it's "capable" of lessens. Theoretically the filter needs changed at a certain exact point. The point where it's become clogged up enough to where it is entering bypass mode or does not "flow" enough oil. But the engineers can only come up with a very good estimate, from R&D, and build in a safety factor. It's like the water seperator in a diesel. It needs drained when the light comes on... the float switch tells you. But oil filters don't have float switches. Same idea though. So if you actually were an engineering lab you'd run the oil filter when fresh and monitor the amount of oil it flows with how much differential pressure before entering bypass mode. Then you'd repeat tests with use at higher intervals 5k, 6k, 10k etc. and monitor the pressure, flow, differential pressure etc on a graph. When the filter becomes unusable, that is your upper end limit for the graph; where your data points stop. Short of actually doing this ourselves.... we have to take Honda's word, and closely watch the oil and listen for noises or anything out of the oridinary.

2007 EX-L Sedan, 2.4L, 5spd Manual, USA-Spec Ipod Interface, OEM Auto dimming compass Rear view mirror, OEM Fog Light kit, Goodyear Fuel Max tires , Magnetic Drain plugs in Trans & Engine. 36.55 MPG Best tank so far (336mi/9.193gal). M1 & P1 filter.
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post #15 of 20 Old 05-02-2010, 08:09 PM
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Short of actually doing this ourselves.... we have to take Honda's word, and closely watch the oil and listen for noises or anything out of the oridinary.
By the time our engine/transmission starts making noises, it might be too late.


92 EX Sedan auto (RBM) - sold after 12 years (140k miles)
03 EX V6 Sedan auto (NBP, then Ford Blue) - traded in after 13 years (135k miles)
16 EX I4 CVT with sensing (KCM) - 14,000 miles so far
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