MLV and Rattle Trap Sound Proofing - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #1 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 02:08 AM Thread Starter
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MLV and Rattle Trap Sound Proofing

This is what I did to sound deaden my car. I used MLV from Home Depot called DB3. Comes in 4' X 8' rolls. Also used Rattle Trap which is like Dyno Mat.

First image is inside door. 3 6" strips about 44" long as there are 3 distinct areas in the door.



This with the MLV on and finished



This was factory like a thin rubber and heavy duty plastic glued on.



Traced my trunk mat out and cut a piece short all around by about 3/8"



The result of that trace and cut.



The fit and how it installed.



The trunk lid liner. Had to be careful not to make it too heavy so the trunk still opened.



Installed it on the hood blanket also.



Hood blanket installed.



The rear speakers.



Front speakers are a two way door now but have a set of Polk Audio DXi6501 6-1/2" Component Speakers on the way to replace them and will pass them on to my girls Fit.

I also cut the MLV for the bottom of all floor mats. I know of no easier way to deaden the floor then this way. It has made a stunning difference in noise levels. With the trunk and the floor mats covered it is really quiet.

The hood and trunk liners make a big difference also. In the trunk lid you can run rattle trap inside it in a lot of places and then a small piece of MLV over the insert.Again weight was a big thought on the trunk.

I took no pictures of the shelf top and bottom but it is totally wrapped in Rattle Trap. Lots of time and to do right and a lot of pieces to fit.

I am by no means saying this is the end all in sound proofing or you should do this. It is what I did and YMMV.

With no radio on is is dead quiet at 70 MPH I mean dead quiet. With tunes on you need very little volume to hear and it gets very loud very quick.

Hope I have given some some ideas on easy ways to add some sound deadening that anyone can do. Having the floor done the whole length of the car really cuts out road noise.

Well will fit some rattle trap on the fire wall when my back feels better and life should be good. Yes my back got a work out twisting and turning in the trunk area.

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post #2 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 07:25 AM
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Nice! What's the price on the MLV from Home Depot?


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post #3 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 07:54 AM
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Good pics and I'm glad you're happy, BUT...Rattletrap/Fatmat is an asphalt based product. It needs to be doubled up or even tripled to have the same effect as products like SoundDeadenerShowdowns CLD tiles, Second Skins Damplifier Pro, etc. There's also going to be a possible smell when hot and the possibility of the product moving/sliding down the door, etc as it won't stick well over time.

The MLV could be interesting. When I spoke with Don at SDS about what makes a good MLV product I believe he told me it's mass and density. Most of these budget or cheaper MLV's need to be doubled up also as they're not thick and dense.

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post #4 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 08:46 AM
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anyone tried RaamMat?

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post #5 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 11:19 AM
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Good for you on completing the project. It is very nice to have a dead quiet car, isn't it?

I managed to get by with 25% coverage area for my aluminum tile via sounddeadenershowdowns' advice. Saved me a lot of weight for essentially same function.

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post #6 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post
Good pics and I'm glad you're happy, BUT...Rattletrap/Fatmat is an asphalt based product. It needs to be doubled up or even tripled to have the same effect as products like SoundDeadenerShowdowns CLD tiles, Second Skins Damplifier Pro, etc. There's also going to be a possible smell when hot and the possibility of the product moving/sliding down the door, etc as it won't stick well over time.

The MLV could be interesting. When I spoke with Don at SDS about what makes a good MLV product I believe he told me it's mass and density. Most of these budget or cheaper MLV's need to be doubled up also as they're not thick and dense.
Well I used this product ten years ago and no issues. No sliding, no double it (have you felt what a box of it weighs?) no smell after a few days of curing.

I can tell you once stuck it is not going anywhere. Period! I was just in the car I did 11 years ago and it has no smell, all is stuck where I put it, and it made a PT Cruiser Turbo quiet inside.

At 57 I am not giving what anyone wants for this big name CDL tile or made in organic Turkey, tile sound deadner. Rattle Trap works fine, cures out in smell after a few days if that, is cost effective, and can be used as much as you care too.

When you thump my door it is nothing but solid.

The MLV is 73% something. It is also very thick, very heavy, and dense. It is from Home Depot and called DB3 4x8' rolls. And it is anything but cheap! You can have a look so you know what it is we are talking about here.

Again my point is do something. You are in the door anyway take a stab at doing something.

The MLV under the mats and trunk is so easy to do. Trace, undercut, lay in under you mats. What do you have to loose but sound?

Just point me to density testing on Fat Mat against something else where it had to be doubled to achieve the same results as a single layer of a competitor. Probably to much to ask that it be independent testing huh?
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post #7 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 09:26 PM
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One thing I would suggest is to buy a few rolls of the denim insulation they sell on the HD website, which looks like recycled blue jeans, and stuff that into the cavities of the trunk between the plastic cover and sheet metal. Made a noticeable reduction in exhaust rumble, leading to a higher quality Lexus-like quiet engine note.

And I too have used this MLV. Good product for the doors because anything thicker and it will make the door panels not fit back on properly. Our door panels have very little internal clearance. No smell at all with mine and my car has been from below zero to 110 degree days this year. It's a real good product, CHEAP, delivered to your door.

Overall, I'm at the level of quiet equivalent to an ES350, except the darn wind noise problem that becomes an issue when wind speeds pick up and going over 70. I think the thin windows are the limiting factor on our car when it comes to how far to go to quiet your car down. Unlike luxury vehicles, we just don't have those thick side windows and that's not something easily solved. So you'll get to the point of rapidly diminishing results once you've done so much... hence, I think the thickness of this HD MLV is pretty ideal.

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post #8 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtohonda View Post
Overall, I'm at the level of quiet equivalent to an ES350, except the darn wind noise problem that becomes an issue when wind speeds pick up and going over 70. I think the thin windows are the limiting factor on our car when it comes to how far to go to quiet your car down. Unlike luxury vehicles, we just don't have those thick side windows and that's not something easily solved.
Did you try using EPT sealer foam around your window seals? Look at my link and it made a pretty substantial wind noise reduction for me. The dealer was useless. It is a really easy project that should take no more than 1 hour.

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post #9 of 67 Old 06-26-2014, 02:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsABigOne View Post
Good for you on completing the project. It is very nice to have a dead quiet car, isn't it?

I managed to get by with 25% coverage area for my aluminum tile via sounddeadenershowdowns' advice. Saved me a lot of weight for essentially same function.
Yes and weight is a big factor with this stuff. A roll is very heavy and the MLV is also very heavy.

I was told years ago you do not need to go and cover every square inch of surface to deaden sound. Basically this stuff is stopping transmission of sound waves and vibration through the sheet metal.

And yes thank you for asking it is just so much less fatigue driving a car that is very quiet inside. You do have to pay attention though as horns honking and sirens need to be listened for, as they are no where as loud or intrusive as before.
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post #10 of 67 Old 06-26-2014, 02:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtohonda View Post
One thing I would suggest is to buy a few rolls of the denim insulation they sell on the HD website, which looks like recycled blue jeans, and stuff that into the cavities of the trunk between the plastic cover and sheet metal. Made a noticeable reduction in exhaust rumble, leading to a higher quality Lexus-like quiet engine note.

And I too have used this MLV. Good product for the doors because anything thicker and it will make the door panels not fit back on properly. Our door panels have very little internal clearance. No smell at all with mine and my car has been from below zero to 110 degree days this year. It's a real good product, CHEAP, delivered to your door.

Overall, I'm at the level of quiet equivalent to an ES350, except the darn wind noise problem that becomes an issue when wind speeds pick up and going over 70. I think the thin windows are the limiting factor on our car when it comes to how far to go to quiet your car down. Unlike luxury vehicles, we just don't have those thick side windows and that's not something easily solved. So you'll get to the point of rapidly diminishing results once you've done so much... hence, I think the thickness of this HD MLV is pretty ideal.
I spent a lot of time holding my tongue just right feeding Rattle Trap into those trunk and rear shelf holes. It was a pain but was worth it. I was afraid to use cloth as I did not want moisture traps in those holes. I need to keep this one for at least 10 years due to fixed income.

Thank you for the heads up though.

Yes that MLV is da bomb! It works so nice and is just right to work with heavy enough, does not rip, and if you need you can use industrial tape (duct tape) as they call it in the instructions. I used Rattle Trap to hang it and affix it wherever I put it to up the sound suppression.
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post #11 of 67 Old 06-26-2014, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF View Post
I was told years ago you do not need to go and cover every square inch of surface to deaden sound. Basically this stuff is stopping transmission of sound waves and vibration through the sheet metal.

Correct. It really serves two functions.

* Cancels sound wave by absorbing them
* In small strips it alters the resonant frequency of the body panel to reduce vibrations and the creation of noise.

If you remove the interior of a car, especially older ones you will see it spot applied to areas on the floor pan pre paint.


Where did you buy the rattle trap?


Jay

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post #12 of 67 Old 06-26-2014, 06:59 AM
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Is there any risk of denting the panels when rolling this stuff on?
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post #13 of 67 Old 06-26-2014, 07:42 AM
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Is there any risk of denting the panels when rolling this stuff on?
Not really. You don't have to roll it hard. Moderate pressure is more than enough. Make sure that the surface that you are adhering to is clean.

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post #14 of 67 Old 06-26-2014, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsABigOne View Post
Good for you on completing the project. It is very nice to have a dead quiet car, isn't it?

I managed to get by with 25% coverage area for my aluminum tile via sounddeadenershowdowns' advice. Saved me a lot of weight for essentially same function.
Amazing how little product you need, how much less weight is added, etc when you use a product that's been designed for that very thing isn't it?!!

I'm not quite sure why people keep trying to reinvent the wheel here. They want cheap, but to add the least amount of weight. Or just cheap. Either way...it's going to be just as expensive or likely more expensive than just doing it with the correct product the first time. Less time spent, less money spent, less weight added, etc. There's a reason why Don at SDS started the company...he researched for YEARS and came up with the best products

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF View Post
Well I used this product ten years ago and no issues. No sliding, no double it (have you felt what a box of it weighs?) no smell after a few days of curing.

I can tell you once stuck it is not going anywhere. Period! I was just in the car I did 11 years ago and it has no smell, all is stuck where I put it, and it made a PT Cruiser Turbo quiet inside.

At 57 I am not giving what anyone wants for this big name CDL tile or made in organic Turkey, tile sound deadner. Rattle Trap works fine, cures out in smell after a few days if that, is cost effective, and can be used as much as you care too.

When you thump my door it is nothing but solid.

The MLV is 73% something. It is also very thick, very heavy, and dense. It is from Home Depot and called DB3 4x8' rolls. And it is anything but cheap! You can have a look so you know what it is we are talking about here.

Again my point is do something. You are in the door anyway take a stab at doing something.

The MLV under the mats and trunk is so easy to do. Trace, undercut, lay in under you mats. What do you have to loose but sound?

Just point me to density testing on Fat Mat against something else where it had to be doubled to achieve the same results as a single layer of a competitor. Probably to much to ask that it be independent testing huh?
What does being 57 have to do with resonance control and other noises? It has nothing to do with where it's made, although being USA made would be great. If anything, I'd bet Don uses just about everything he can here in the US. I know he engineered his products so that they would do the job. That's why most MLV is recycled, smells, isn't consistent, etc.

Again, asphalt based products are just mass loaders. They reduce resonances by mass loading...aka....adding weight. They do a pretty poor job of it for the amount of weight added. Not all butyl is the same either. And the foil rigidity and thickness is another big factor. These are all things you have to take into account for deadening resonances. As for MLV, it's definitely not all the same. And DB3 is definitely not considered expensive for MLV...or heavy for that matter. Not even close. If you have a look at the SDS website, you can see why most MLV products smell, why it's not good that they're not pliable, etc.

There have been TONS of independent tests on this stuff. Quite a few that happened just recently actually. Look on DIYMA.com.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karfreek View Post
Correct. It really serves two functions.

* Cancels sound wave by absorbing them
* In small strips it alters the resonant frequency of the body panel to reduce vibrations and the creation of noise.

If you remove the interior of a car, especially older ones you will see it spot applied to areas on the floor pan pre paint.


Where did you buy the rattle trap?


Jay
It's more of a reflection than absorption

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post #15 of 67 Old 06-26-2014, 08:20 AM
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About your Home Depot 'MLV'. This is straight from Don at SDS


"What people are describing as "Home Depot MLV" is really an EVA barrier, some versions of which have felt pressed into the EVA as it's being extruded.

EVA is a cool material in that it's cleaner than PVC to manufacture. There are two problems:

1) It's stiff as hell.
2) Nothing will stick to it - no glue or tape will work with it, it's like Teflon

Both are problems in a vehicle or when treating any surface that isn't planar and horizontal.

Hope that helps."



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