just to let you all know RETRO HIDS are Legal. - Page 2 - Drive Accord Honda Forums | radio-pro.ru
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post #16 of 36 Old 01-07-2008, 07:54 AM
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as of 2003. NHTSA interpretations.



Quote:
3/20/03 14745 A replacement headlamp must use the same replaceable bulb(s) as the original equipment
uses.
and

Quote:
9/30/03 16257 HID conversion kits are illegal. They do not conform to the dimensional and electrical
specifications contained within 49CFRPart564.
I'm looking for anything that is actually official to contradict these items.

anyone?


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post #17 of 36 Old 01-09-2008, 10:28 AM
pro common sense!

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ironically after weeks of searching, there is not ONE thing to be found that was announced by the nhtsa about this. please note that this article cites SEMA for it's sources, not the nhtsa. SEMA's interest is in allowing modifying to any extent whether it's respectable or not. we are still searching for a valid NHTSA reversal information. does anyone have NHTSA info regarding this so called reversal of the ruling in 2003? please come forward, otherwise it seems a bit misleading and slightly irresponsible to have a thread stickied about how it's legal when you can't find anything out there proving such..........

ps~trust me stevel would jump right on the bandwagon of retrofits if it was verifiably legal. hey, if others are legally allowed to blind other motorists, why can't we all? i'm definitely all for blinding others who blind me.



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post #18 of 36 Old 01-09-2008, 10:32 AM
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yeah, I was going to stir the pot on the mods soon too. especially as one of our mods is HUGE on correct information. and there seems to be no real info to prove this little copy and paste article as true.......

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post #19 of 36 Old 01-09-2008, 10:36 AM
pro common sense!

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problem is SEMA is an enthusiasts group, not a government body. the article mentions the NHTSA and supposed ruling reversals but never actually confers with the NHTSA. they talk to SEMA people alot.... SEMA can say whatever they want to say to try to hype its reason for existance..... it definitely does not mean it's the truth.


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post #20 of 36 Old 01-09-2008, 10:59 AM
ready to go....

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I have emailed them. So if they reply we'll find out & can stop "stirring the pot".

I'm willing to bet the laws vary from state to state & that NHTSA is still researching the "glare" of them.... as they are so many things. Government agencies are generally several years behind real life.

People wanting add these to their cars are smart enough to see what's acceptable in their own area or ignore it like with so many laws. Just having this stickied brings attention to the fact that they should check it out. Maybe I give our members credit for having brains. Since this is an opinion based forum, it's not hard to figure out that we can be wrong.
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post #21 of 36 Old 01-10-2008, 10:07 AM
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don't most federal laws on these subjects overrule state laws? I don't know....



I had also emailed the nhtsa on monday, got a reply that I had to forward my question to their "compliance" department. did that yesterday. but I can't access my email from where I am today.

most members do have brains, but some are so excited about some things and just assume what they read is the truth without any real backing to the truth. know what I mean?

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post #22 of 36 Old 01-10-2008, 11:17 AM
ready to go....

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I'm not finding ANY "law" on the NHTSA site.... just testing. All of that seems to regarding night glare. I personally find HID LESS glarey than regular lights since their beam is more like a line instead of ball. Kinda like a foglight.

According to their tests about 30% of people complain about headlight glare & it's not better or worse with HIDs. Their advice is to basically not get old, keep your glasses and windshield clean & don't look at the lights!

I do understand your point on the legalities, but with the discussion here I'm sure anyone that in interested can see there's disagreement about it. They'll need to do their own research since we haven't found anything 100% conclusive. Maybe one of will get an email back. I just have a feeling they haven't actually made a decision yet.
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post #23 of 36 Old 01-10-2008, 05:14 PM
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The last I heard from several distributors is that retro HID kits remain illegal for road use at this time. Has to be factory installed or no dice.

Although many people use the kits with no problems, I guess there are some cheap kits that could cause issues.

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post #24 of 36 Old 02-25-2008, 03:26 PM
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I finally got a response from the NHTSA......

Quote:
I would like to apologize for the delay in response to your inquiry. After numerous forwards it has been brought to my attention. Regarding retrofiting your vehicle with and HID light system, NHTSA has completed testing on numerous HID Conversion Kits and have found none of them to be in compliance with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 108, U.S. motor vehicle lighting standard because they have been found to violate numerous photometric, electrical and dimensional regulations in the standard. This is because of the "cutting and pasting" of the HID light source onto a halogen base. However, if you were to replace the enitre halogen headlamp assembly with one that is designed to use an HID light source (ie, D1S, D2S, etc.) this would not necessarily constitute a non-compliance. Testing would have to be done on the new assembly to ensure that it meets the DOT requirements. The certification of the lamps is supposed to be carried out by the manufacturer of the lamps so I'd suggest that you ask them if the lamps have been certified.

Cassandra Peterkin
Safety Compliance Engineer - Lighting
so basically, unless you get your retro inspected and approved, you are NOT ok. technically.

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post #25 of 36 Old 12-16-2008, 10:23 PM
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I actually received a ticket for headlights, I blew a stop sign and a cop flew up and when he said my headlights were to blue I kind of grinned haha. Ended up having to go to court and received only court fees, they dropped the ticket, sitll dont drive through that town at night

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post #26 of 36 Old 12-17-2008, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAccord04 View Post
I actually received a ticket for headlights, I blew a stop sign and a cop flew up and when he said my headlights were to blue I kind of grinned haha. Ended up having to go to court and received only court fees, they dropped the ticket, sitll dont drive through that town at night

Not to be rude but you have 12K you are going to attract attention

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post #27 of 36 Old 12-17-2008, 01:00 PM
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So having bids I'm not going to get a ticket even in new York?
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post #28 of 36 Old 03-04-2009, 11:17 PM
dont deviate

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good info stevel, makes me feel somewhat better. i have always wondered this. i have an s2k proj. retro on my ride.

/94EX CD7 G77M/DZ-D1/JDM S2K HID/18RH-C5/WW-T/(gone)
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post #29 of 36 Old 09-16-2009, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zro26t View Post
True. Stumbled on an inspection place in my city still checks beam levels too. LOL Thought that was odd. I haven't seen that done in at least 10 years!
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post #30 of 36 Old 09-18-2009, 01:00 AM
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This is was a cool link for sema look what i found it says all hid conversions aka not retrofits are illegal lol




"
As SEMA has reported in the past, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is targeting high-intensity discharge (HID) conversion kits for enforcement actions.

The NHTSA has concluded that it is impossible to produce HID conversion kits (converting a halogen system to HID) that would be compliant with the federal lighting standard, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 108. The noncompliant kits frequently include a HID bulb, a ballast, an igniter, a relay and wiring harness adapters. The NHTSA believes this equipment presents a safety risk to the public since the kits can be expected to produce excessive glare to oncoming motorists. In one investigation, the NHTSA found that an HID conversion headlamp exceeded the maximum allowable candlepower by over 800%.

Halogen equipment uses an electrical current to heat a metal wire coil filament to incandescence, while the HID conversion kit’s light source incorporates a discharge arc to produce light. HIDs require a ballast for operation. Under FMVSS No. 108’s Section S7.7 (replaceable light sources), each replaceable light source for headlamps must be designed to conform to the dimensions and electrical specifications for the headlamp source it is intended to replace. For example, if an HID kit is marketed as replacing an H1 light source, then it must match the H1’s wire coil filament size and location, the electrical connector size and location and the ballast design for use with an H1 light source (which is impossible since there is no ballast). Consequently, companies that are manufacturing HID light sources (e.g., D1S, D1R, D2S, D2R, 9500, etc…) with incandescent light source bases (e.g., H1, H3, H7, H8, H9, H11, H13, HB1, HB2, HB3, HB4, HB5, etc…) should be aware that this light source design would not be one that conforms to FMVSS No. 108, and could not be imported and sold in the United States without violating Federal law. (The importer is treated as the manufacturer and subject to the same fines and penalties that apply to a domestic manufacturer.)

The NHTSA has also determined that a commonly used disclaimer “for off-road use only” has no legal meaning and is not recognized by the agency as the manufacturer, importer and retailer are not in a position to control use once a product has been sold. Any equipment offered for sale which is covered by FMVSS No. 108 (headlamps, taillamps, side markers, etc.) must comply with the standard.

On a related topic, the NHTSA has also stepped up enforcement against restyled combination lamps that are missing required functions existing on the original-equipment lamps. This would include replacement front- or rear-combination lighting equipment that do not have a required reflector, amber or red light, “DOT” marking or mismarked wattage. The issue is the same: any equipment offered for sale which is covered by FMVSS No. 108 must comply with the standard.
"


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